Serenbe Stories

Southface Co-Founder Dennis Creech's Influence on National Sustainability

March 16, 2020 Serenbe / Dennis Creech Season 2 Episode 8
Serenbe Stories
Southface Co-Founder Dennis Creech's Influence on National Sustainability
Show Notes Transcript

When Dennis Creech started Southface, energy wasn't even a part of the environmental conversation. He knew it would be one of the most significant issues our society would face, and in this episode he talks about the positive effects of green building and how Atlanta is leading the nation in reducing energy and water demand. Dennis also tells us about the Kendeda Building for Innovative Sustainable Design on Georgia Tech's campus, and how it's changing the global conversation on conservation.

Definitions, People + Organizations Mentioned

Green Prints

Ray C. Anderson

Rocky Mountain Institute

1996 Summer Olympics

Energy Star Certification

EarthCraft

LEED

Homebuilders Association

Howie Frumpkin

Bosch NetZero House

Agnes Scott College

Emory University

GA Tech

U.S. Department of Energy Better Buildings Challenge

Split Incentive- Split incentives are a barrier to the deployment of energy efficiency measures in buildings. Split incentives occur when those responsible for paying energy bills (the tenant) are not the same entity as those making the capital investment decisions (the landlord or building owner).

Living Building- A living building generates all of its own energy, captures and treats its water, and operates cleanly and efficiently in harmony with nature.

Net Positive- A business standard aiming to provide restorative and positive impacts on people, planet, and society. 

Equity in Building Design- Diversity in design and consideration in public spaces including restrooms, private activity spaces for nursing mothers and safe public spaces for school-aged children.

Kendeda Fund

Kendeda Building

Southface

Monica Olsen (1s):
Hey guys, it's Monica here. I wanted to tell you about a new podcast that I've started with my very good friend, Jennifer Walsh called Biophilic Solutions. Our last season of Serenbe Stories, Building a Biophilic Movement, was so popular that we decided to dedicate an entire podcast to it. Every other week Jennifer and I will sit down with leaders in the growing field of biophilia. We'll talk about local and global solutions to help nurture the living, social, and economic systems that we all need to sustain future generations. More often than not, nature has the answers. You can find Biophilic Solutions on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and follow us today so you don't miss an episode.

Monica Olsen (41s):
All right, now let's get back to Serenbe Stories. Serenbe is a place where people live, work, learn, and play in celebration of life's beauty. And we're here to share the stories that connect residents and guests to each other and to nature. This is Serenbe Stories. When Dennis Creech started Southface, energy wasn't even a part of the environmental conversation, yet he knew it would be one of the most significant issues our society would face.

Monica Olsen (1m 31s):
And in this episode today, he talks about the positive effects of green building and how Atlanta is leading the nation in reducing energy and water demand. Dennis also tells us about the Kendena building for innovative, sustainable design on Georgia Tech's campus and how it's changing the global conversation on how we build, conservation, and how we can lower energy demand.

Monica Olsen (1m 52s):
But first, Serenbe Stories is brought to you by The Inn at Serenbe. The Inn is nestled in the rolling countryside of bucolic Serenbe, where guests can walk on the 15 miles of trails through preserved forest land, the wildflower meadow, and the animal village. You can relax by the pool, hot tub, or in rocking chairs on the wraparound porch, play on the croquet lawn, swings, and in-ground trampolines. Connect with nature and each other all while staying in luxurious rooms on The Inn grounds or within the community of Serenbe. Book your stay today at serenbeinn.com.

Monica Olsen (2m 21s):
I want to welcome Steve back.

Steve Nygren (2m 23s):
Thanks Monica.

Monica Olsen (2m 24s):
As well as our guest today, which is Dennis Creech.

Dennis Creech (2m 26s):
Hi Monica.

Monica Olsen (2m 28s):
Dennis, who we're going to be talking to today, has been the co-founder and the previous executive director of Southface for over 38 years from its inception, as well as a national leader in sustainability, a winner of awards too numerous for me to list, he was designated by the Georgia trend as one of the hundred most influential Georgians, and is currently a sustainability fund advisor for the Kendida fund since 2017. So welcome.

Steve Nygren (2m 55s):
Welcome Dennis.

Dennis Creech (2m 56s):
Yeah, well it's always a great pleasure to be at Serenbe. Just, the vibe here is just terrific.

Monica Olsen (3m 1s):
Oh, thank you so much for saying that.

Steve Nygren (3m 4s):
And you have seen us since the very beginning, when this was just a forest and dirt,

Dennis Creech (3m 9s):
You know, and it's still a forest and dirt. Which is, I think that speaks to what Serenbe is about.

Dennis Creech (3m 15s):
We should say it's a forest with healthy soil.

Monica Olsen (3m 19s):
That's great. Well, and that is a perfect segue into what the question I ask everybody in the beginning is how did you and Steve Nygren originally meet way back when.

Dennis Creech (3m 30s):
I can't tell you the exact time, because you know, you hear about people and in you're moving in circles and then suddenly, you know, you're together and, you know, Steve is the ultimate networker. And so, you know, I know I knew him before I knew him because so many people were talking about what his vision was.

Steve Nygren (3m 56s):
And so you see, I, I, I more specifically remember while, while maybe I ran into Dennis Creech at that at various things, but we had stepped off the treadmill. And so we were just out here in the country doing our thing. And then when we realized that we were trying to save this area and everyone's heard the Ray Anderson story, Ray, I believe pointed me to Southface to Dennis and to Greenprints. And if you look back into those early years, and this is like 2000, 2001, Greenprints was one of the few places in the nation where you could really find the information and the speakers. What year did Greenprints start Dennis?

Dennis Creech (4m 41s):
Well, you're going to ask me to remember a date. I don't remember exactly. It's about 30 years ago.

Steve Nygren (4m 46s):
Yeah, yeah. And so I started showing up and, and, and I remember everyone was very curious because we weren't showing up at a lot in Atlanta at that point. And why was I at this meeting, you know, an environmentalist and development and the built environment. And of course at this point we didn't even know what we were going to do and certainly weren't talking about it. So that's probably, I was sneaking in there on Dennis's side views.

Dennis Creech (5m 13s):
I mean, I do remember the fact that it was a rare developer in that was interested in something more than just a plain community approach. And so someone who understood the importance of the holistic approach to, to, to green, you know, we were having some green building success at that time, but it was, you know, people doing onesies and twosies kind of thing largely. And so to, to have someone that had a vision for not just the house, but the entire community was rare and special.

Steve Nygren (5m 47s):
And so when the Rocky mountain Institute and Ray Anderson convened the 23 thought leaders in September of 2000, Dennis was one of those thought leaders who joined us at that very first discussion on environmental issues and, and how it might apply towards the built environment. And this was at the point, we were still just trying to figure out how to save the greater area. And, and Ray was nudging me towards actually becoming a developer, but,

Dennis Creech (6m 18s):
And, and I'm from the south, I'm a proud southerner, but it was very rare to have that kind of vision in the south. I mean, you you would think of people in the Pacific Northwest or in Boulder, or, you know, some, some great places that were magnets for, for creative thinking, for sure. But to have that here in Georgia and the Southeast, I think makes it extra special.

Monica Olsen (6m 42s):
Well, and that's actually an interesting point you make, because Southface, you know, you could say the same thing about Southface that had started, let's say, 20 years prior to the idea of even Serenbe. So how did that come about and why Southface, why did, why did you feel, first of all, tell, tell us what that was or is, and then tell us why you wanted to build that.

Dennis Creech (7m 5s):
Well, Southface started roughly about 1978, just, as Serenbe started really, you know, when did you first start thinking about this? It's not one day it evolves over time, but you know, that's a long time ago in 1978, the environmental movement was still fairly, fairly new, you know, earth day had started, but if you polled the, the, the issues that most environmental organizations were working on, it was things like recycling and keeping rivers from catching on fire and, you know, important work, but energy was not really considered an environmental issue back then. But if you look at it, the production and use of energy is the, some would say the most significant, certainly one of the most significant environmental challenges, our society faces.

Dennis Creech (7m 54s):
And that's really where Southface started was looking at how do we fill that gap in the environmental movement about not looking at energy and its impact? And then it evolved from there because you can't just look at energy, you've got to look at water and you can't just look at energy and water, you've got to look at health, and you can't just look at energy, water, and health, you've got to look at the natural resources that are, that are feeding this. And, and the impact of the built environment on the natural environment, again, was just not something that was, was talked about a lot, especially in the south. And so that's really the, the catalyst that, that formed Southface.

Monica Olsen (8m 31s):
And were you doing work in that area prior to that? I know you had gotten your master's in, I think it was systems ecology?

Dennis Creech (8m 40s):
Yeah. I'm, you know, fallen systems ecologist, if you will. And so we started as an all volunteer organization. I was the co-chair of that effort. And then, but it became apparent that, you know, this was sort of in my mind applied ecology and, and the group of us that started Southface, that that's what we were interested in.

Monica Olsen (9m 7s):
And Steve, had you heard about it prior when you were up in Atlanta and doing things, or was it sort of, you were in parallel universes at that point?

Steve Nygren (9m 17s):
Aware maybe, but not, not really interested. I was the hospitality guy. And, and what year did you do the office there on Renaissance?

Dennis Creech (9m 29s):
'96. When the Olympics came to town. We were successful in building a new demonstration facility to take advantage of the world's attention on Atlanta to showcase that there were better ways of designing and building where we live and work and play.

Monica Olsen (9m 51s):
And was energy star? When did that happen? Cause I, cause I think if that's like an early

Dennis Creech (9m 54s):
We were at the southeast office that we, we built in '96 was the first energy star certified building in the south. So yeah.

Monica Olsen (10m 2s):
Oh okay perfect. And was, cause that, because I think most consumers, like, you know, growing up, like that's something that you see on a light bulb or an appliance. And so that was sort of maybe a lot of our early entree as just a general public into energy savings or reducing the energy. But what other things like, why did it lead to a certification? Cause you do have a certification for homes and businesses and workplaces called the EarthCraft certification. How did that come out of Southface?

Dennis Creech (10m 32s):
Well you know there's that old saying trust, but verify.

Dennis Creech (10m 35s):
And so, you know, I, I, I've worked with many home builders over my career and every builder builds a quality home. And so, but that obviously in the marketplace doesn't have a lot of power. And so we had design and construction professionals who were serious about lessening the impact of what they designed and built on the environment. And there needed to be a way to differentiate themselves in the marketplace. And we actually did focus groups and, and partnering with the home builders association and found that consumers would, would link an independent certification program around green building with quality.

Dennis Creech (11m 26s):
And so in their mind, that was a something that, that they responded to and the data was pretty compelling really. And so a few enlightened developers and, and builders saw that and frankly it fit with their own personal values.

Steve Nygren (11m 44s):
What year did you launch the EarthCraft certification for homes?

Dennis Creech (11m 48s):
And it's, it was, it was a long incubation period. You know, Steve I'm embarrassed, I can't remember the exact name a year, but I do remember the first year- and again, we did this in partnership with the home builders association- the first year we had eight houses in the program and they've certified over 50,000 today.

Monica Olsen (12m 8s):
Oh wow. That is incredible.

Dennis Creech (12m 10s):
Because no one knew if this was going to catch on. I mean, this was a risk

Steve Nygren (12m 14s):
And you were one, as I remember, one of the early certification programs in the United States and you preceded LEED certification by several years.

Dennis Creech (12m 22s):
In fact, we served on the committee, you know, I personally served on the committee to help develop the LEED residential program. So cause I think the market is, is a great force. And so, but there's, there's not one tool out there. And, and really green building is very much a local thing. What you do here at Serenbe, it's not the same formula that you would take if you were building in Minneapolis. And so having a regional approach, I think is a, is a smart way to go because you can tap the, the, the attributes of, of that local climate, the local building styles, the local talent.

Dennis Creech (13m 6s):
And, and that's what leads to success.

Monica Olsen (13m 9s):
Right, and Southface is a, is sort of the Southeastern regional option for people.

Steve Nygren (13m 14s):
But the amazing thing, and I think Dennis is being modest because, you know, we're we're looking back here in the nineties, I mean, eighties, and there were not many voices, especially in the south. And Dennis was that voice that stood out in this entire movement, pushing leaders and people to say, there, there is a different way. And to look at that, and it's really important, and I think the certification is one of those. It was, it was an early program. And today I continue to think it's the best program because of the inspection program.

Steve Nygren (13m 54s):
And so as a developer, as an owner of a building, I have real confidence that when I have an EarthCraft certification, I have a performing building. And with many of the certification programs, that's not necessarily true. It might be certified plans. And we don't always know if it's built that way.

Dennis Creech (14m 14s):
We have a saying, it's important to have someone with mud on their boots out there working in the program. I mean, you've, you've gotta be on the job site to check. And, you know, the reality is the builders that are working in the program, it's not that they're trying to cheat the program or whatever. There's a lot of moving parts on a job site. And I remember personally, you know, being out on a, on a job site, some number of years back and checking the heating and cooling equipment and the builder had taken the credit and the program for putting in a high efficiency, heating, and cooling system, a good thing to do, but you're looking at the, at the product itself and looking at the numbers on the, on the piece of equipment and they don't match up.

Dennis Creech (14m 59s):
And you say, oh, gee, this is not the efficient unit that you said you were taking. Call the builder and he says, what do you mean I'm paying for it? And so something had happened in the subcontractor's warehouse where the wrong piece of equipment had gotten onto the truck.

Monica Olsen (15m 14s):
Of course.

Dennis Creech (15m 15s):
And so things like that happen. And so this extra quality assurance aspect, I think of, of a, of a good green building program adds a lot of value. And so we just had hundreds of examples of where that is. Another set of eyes out there helping ensure that you're, you're getting what you're paying for, and that you're going to get the performance.

Monica Olsen (15m 37s):
That's interesting to think about if you live somewhere else and you're either working with a certification program, like EarthCraft, to ask that question, you know, that some of them, I didn't realize that some of them didn't verify if you will, or didn't have the boots on the ground in the mud. That's a great question to ask.

Dennis Creech (15m 51s):
Right. Yeah. Again, just lots of stories of that's the case. And so it's not this, I got you kind of a program at all. It's really a partnership where you're, you know, you were working with the subcontractors, you're working with the builder. You know, one of the nicest compliments early in the program we got was we'd been out there in the installation of the forced air heating and cooling duct work is one of the most critical things about ensuring comfort and health in a house, and also low energy bills. And, and it hadn't been done correctly. And talking with the, the subcontractor who had done the work said, oh, well, you didn't tell me this was an EarthCraft house.

Monica Olsen (16m 35s):
They're like, well, shouldn't you just be building it that way anyway.

Dennis Creech (16m 38s):
And I don't mean, you know, because there were so many good contractors in the program and that was in the early days and today now, and one of the things I'm proud of, and I think Serenbe deserves credit for this as well. We've changed the industry. And so this is not just those one-off kinds of programs. I mean, we've raised the tide on all the boats. Now, Serenbe still floats high on, on, on the water for sure, for many reasons, but, but all construction has been improved because of the green building programs around the country. And I think EarthCraft is, has done a good job in, in the south

Steve Nygren (17m 20s):
And Dennis, while you've worked with developers, also, there are cities now that are requiring EarthCraft certification, is that?

Dennis Creech (17m 27s):
That's true. Here in Georgia, the city of Decatur. And so, because Decatur is a, is a city that recognizes that air quality is important. That recognizes that saving water is important to the municipalities. I mean, having to build, and it's an economic argument, having to build more infrastructure to support sewage systems and water supply systems is very costly for local governments. And so why put in those kinds of systems in buildings that are inefficient that waste? And so that's going to add to the taxpayer burden down the road of having to build new, new infrastructure.

Monica Olsen (18m 7s):
Right. So when we talk about cities being EarthCraft certified, and I know that Serenbe is an EarthCraft, one of the first EarthCraft certified communities. So you've got a house, you can certify a house, you can certify a workplace, a commercial building. Serenbe, I believe the, the way that we're certified is it's every single home and every single building is in it. I don't know if there's other layers,

Steve Nygren (18m 28s):
Well, there are several layers. We were part of that test communities. They, they chose different communities so that there was that that first group, we all represent a different thing. We were sort of the green field and I was worried that we'd really be low on the totem pole. And we came out pretty high because of our environmental issues.

Dennis Creech (18m 44s):
As a matter of fact, of those early four pilot communities, I think few thought of Serenbe as, you know, cause they were sort of the small one at the, at the beginning, but they are anything but that now. They have succeeded beyond, I think everyone's expectations except for maybe Steve. I think Steve's vision was there right from the start.

Monica Olsen (19m 7s):
He's way ahead of both of us.

Monica Olsen (19m 10s):
But so for, so that's interesting for, for the community, but for a city, how does that work? Is it the same model where it's every home, every commercial or is it every future or is there infrastructure? What, what what's involved in that?

Dennis Creech (19m 22s):
So the city actually does this, you know, they can customize it to the way they want. With the city of Decatur that we were using as an example, you know, they've passed an ordinance that requires if you're building a new home, it has to meet a certain green building certification.

Steve Nygren (19m 40s):
So I believe that's, that's now linked with their certificate of occupancy. They have to show their EarthCraft certification.

Monica Olsen (19m 46s):
Okay. And that, I think that's how it is here as well. I know that I have like an EarthCraft sign in my laundry room with the numbers on it and everything, whatever they mean. That made me happy when I moved in.

Steve Nygren (19m 59s):
That's right. And what, what I believe we're starting to show is that has value. So when buyers, especially the younger generation, that means something when they see that certification, because that tells them,

Dennis Creech (20m 13s):
So a true story, a person who was a developer friend, his housekeeper came in one day and he was wearing an EarthCraft t-shirt and she says, oh, EarthCraft. And he says, oh, you know, the EarthCraft program? She says, I live in one of the homes, EarthCraft certified as apartments, as well as single family homes. And she lived in one of the EarthCraft certified apartments and he said, oh, what do you, what do you know about EarthCraft? She said, oh, not much other than I know I got a better house.

Monica Olsen (20m 42s):
Oh, that's great. There you go! You just won on the brand.

Dennis Creech (20m 47s):
Right! And so I think so, you know, many, you know, EarthCraft homeowners or renters of apartments, they don't really know the details of the program, but they know they've got better comfort. They know maybe their kids have fewer respiratory issues. They know their, their energy and water bills are less. And so they don't really understand perhaps green building, but they know that the benefits that a program offers.

Steve Nygren (21m 14s):
Well, you, you, you bring a good point because as you, as you said to start out with, you know, energy, and then you can't deal with that other than water, and then that leads to various things. And what we found, why we really focused on the, the energy or, or, or the environmental, now we're in our 15th year of people living here. And it's the health results that we hear a lot about. And how much was that part of what you were doing? I know your friendship with Howie Frumkin pulled you into that, but how much was that actually part of the program or just an awareness?

Dennis Creech (21m 47s):
Oh, I think it was critical from the start for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's the right thing to do and, you know, you always want to be trying to make the world a better place I think. Second, that connects with potential home owners or renters in many ways more than the dollar savings, because who, who doesn't want their kids to live in a house, that's going to be helping them with their health as opposed to contributing to problems with health. And if you look at it on a monetary basis, if you can keep a kid from having to go to the emergency room to deal with asthma or, or to their doctor, that saves more money than the savings on the energy and the water bill.

Dennis Creech (22m 37s):
And so in Atlanta, you know, we're, we're, we're based here, is no different than every other major city in this country. We have an epic of asthma in our city and we know the built environment helps contribute to that. And so when we do green building well, we have a healthier home. We reduce asthma triggers. And so, and there's data that shows that that happens with well-designed and constructed green products. And again, if we could monetize that savings, it would be much greater than the savings we get from energy and water efficiency.

Steve Nygren (23m 18s):
Were you making those links back in the eighties and nineties?

Dennis Creech (23m 21s):
We were beginning to. We didn't have the data that we have now. So in fact, those, I mentioned that there were eight houses that were built the first year of the EarthCraft program. The, what made me the proudest of that, one of the eight houses, one of the first owners of our EarthCraft home had a kid named Drew, young young boy about 10, and he had asthma. And so the mom tells story, she took Drew to see her pulmonary doctor. And he said, this is the best I've seen Drew in years. What are you doing? And the answer was, we moved into an EarthCraft home. Now we don't have data that proves that, that was just one incident, but we heard those kinds of stories throughout and continue to hear that throughout the program.

Dennis Creech (24m 4s):
And now we, now that the research is backing up with good data that when we do green design well, and so it has positive health benefits.

Steve Nygren (24m 15s):
And, you know, we've, it's now documented that there are huge savings in, in, in building well on your energy costs. And that's why every fortune 500 company requires a certified building now. How do you see us monetizing the health benefits for the future?

Dennis Creech (24m 30s):
We're beginning to see some progress in that area, in that area where healthcare companies recognize gee, if we can eliminate these problems that lead to poor health in the built environment in home, schools, then that's going to save them downstream on healthcare costs. You know, it's hundreds of dollars for a kid to go to the emergency room for an asthma treatment. And so if we can reduce asthma triggers in the home, that's saving the healthcare companies. The trouble is, you know, there's no free lunches out there. And so it costs a little bit to design and build to a higher standard.

Dennis Creech (25m 13s):
And you, you get the savings in energy savings and you get the savings in health, which I think are much greater than the energy and water savings. But, but the challenge is what's known as the split incentive, the person who makes the decisions on how buildings are designed and constructed are not the same people who benefit from the lower energy and water and other operating costs or benefit from the health savings. And so in, in most residential design and construction, you know, people build houses and they sell them and they say, have a nice life. That's what makes Serenbe, I think a little bit different is you've got the sense of community here, and it speaks to your values, but it speaks to the values of the community as we're not just about cheap and quick.

Dennis Creech (26m 0s):
We're about looking at long-term how buildings perform, how people are enhanced, you know, their health and their, their wallet by doing the right thing on the design and then how that enhances community. And so the green part is I know is an important part of Serenbe, but you also enhance people with the arts and exposure to good food and nutrition. And so there's a lot of way that you're, you're building community here. I would say all that's sustainable.

Steve Nygren (26m 30s):
And so it's the, it's the market that has driven the appetite. I would suggest for certified houses, is that correct? It's not necessarily, in the early days, it was willing builders and possibly developers, but now I think it's the market pushing it. That's why there's such an increase.

Dennis Creech (26m 49s):
Steve, I mean, yes and no. I think the market is there, but the majority of homes still are not certified green that are, that are built out there. And the majority of commercial buildings are still not certified. We're making good, you know, we've made progress in market penetration, if you will. So, I mean, I'm going to bring this back to Serenbe. I think this is why having visionary people who work hard, who are stubborn and say, this is the way we're going to do it the right way. And sometimes you have to wait for the, some of the market forces to come to where you are.

Steve Nygren (27m 22s):
It's just amazing that people are still willing to pay their local utilities this money every month when they don't have to. And, and of course, I think it's also how we talk about it. I I've talked to many of our companies that supply the product and they talk about the payback and they're always showing the savings and how it spreads out. But you're very well aware of the house we did in partnership with Bosch. And it was an EarthCraft certified house, which reduced what, 30, 35% of the energy demand. Then we required a geothermal and that was another 30, 35%. And then they put solar on it. Well, they were able to put one third, the solar on that house because we'd already reduced the demand by that 70%.

Steve Nygren (28m 10s):
Now it was more expensive of course, to build. And so when we sold it, they got a mortgage and their monthly mortgage payment was of course more because it costs more, but their, their increase in their monthly mortgage was less than what their power bill would have been. And so it's cash positive month one. So rather than talking about payback, let's talk about cashflow and, and that's, I think how we could maybe have the conversation differently. And, and when you look at it that way, why wouldn't someone, and then you add the health piece on it. It becomes a no brainer. And how, how as an industry, do we educate?

Dennis Creech (28m 49s):
Well, you're right. I mean, when it's done well, you know, houses are usually the biggest investment most people make in their lives, single investment. And so, you know, you're investing when you increase the, the, the cost, a modest increase in costs for energy and water efficiency and the health benefits. You know, that's an investment you're making that offers paybacks. You know, the houses are going to last 50 to a hundred years. And so, as opposed to when you pay a utility bill, that's not an investment, that's just a cost. And so it gets back to that split incentive that, you know, people are not involved early in the design and construction process. And most people who are making those decisions, they don't see the direct benefits.

Dennis Creech (29m 32s):
And so, unfortunately, a lot of folks still, you know, they buy homes based on emotion, more than they do on logic. You know, location to schools is important, color of walls and what kind of kitchen countertop you have. I mean, those are all important decisions. Nobody wants, you know, ugly countertops for sure, but you know, it, it takes it takes a knowledgeable consumer for the market to work sometime. Again, which gets back to, you know, the easy, Serenbe doesn't take the easy route on this. You know, you take a route that I think is values driven, and that speaks highly to what you all are doing here.

Dennis Creech (30m 11s):
And, you know, the economics, you understand them, but it's not the short, quick term economics. It's the economics that, that play out over time. And if we can start monetizing the real benefits of health and environmental health as well, you know, we are concerned about climate change and we still allow buildings to be built that needlessly waste energy, and we need to get around on public policy that prevents that from happening. And so

Steve Nygren (30m 42s):
Well, currently you're leading the way now with your role at Kendeda and the new building that you have just unveiled. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that?

Dennis Creech (30m 50s):
Well, we're, we're pretty pleased. We have a partnership with Georgia tech and Kendeda is a private donor driven foundation. And we've partnered with Georgia tech to build, what's known as a living building, and it's a building that produces more energy than it uses. We say, that's net positive for energy, produces more than it uses. It's also net positive for water. And what that means is all the water the building uses for irrigation, for potable drinking water, everything, is water that we capture onsite from the rooftop rainwater and store that. And so we're net positive for water. A little unusual aspect of the building,

Dennis Creech (31m 31s):
It's also net positive for waste. What that means is that we've recycled that 98% of the construction waste was recycled. Well, how do you get from 98% to over a hundred percent? So we've used a lot of reclaimed salvage materials. And so the inside of the building is just beautiful because trees that had been had fallen from storm damage or from disease on the site were, were re-milled and used in the building. The wood's gorgeous. We took wood that had been thrown away from movie sets, over 20,000 two by fours, and reused those in the construction of the building.

Dennis Creech (32m 14s):
So that's how you get net positive for waste. But the most important thing is the building is healthy. It's got great daylighting design, it's got biophilic design aspects in it. The building has not even officially opened, and yet it is filled with people because they just are, it's a magnet. It just, people are just drawn to the space.

Steve Nygren (32m 36s):
And so our listeners can just drop by and walk in. Is that correct?

Dennis Creech (32m 39s):
Yes, it's on Georgia Tech's campus. It's a public university. So it's open, open to the public. You know, obviously university buildings have hours of operation. So it's always a good idea to go to the website and check. And so you can go to the Kendeda website by the way, and see a live action view of the building. It's really, it's a handsome building. And so there's never been a perfect building. I, you know, I don't want to oversell this, but this is a really good building. When you're net positive for energy and water and waste. And there's some equity issues around the building, Kendeda believes strongly in equity. So for example, when you walk in the building, one of the first things you notice is this beautiful salvaged wood ramp that leads you down the building, as it steps down and follows the slope of the, of the site there.

Dennis Creech (33m 29s):
And everyone, the immediate reaction is that is the most gorgeous stairwell I've ever seen. No one says, oh, that's designed for someone in a wheelchair. They just see the beauty of the materials and the design. And so that gets to be an equity. You know, a lot of times in buildings, if you need a ramp for mobility issues, the ramp is hidden back in the, in the, you know, in the storage area. And you, you, you know, it takes you a hard time to find it. This is front and center in adds beauty to the space, as well as functionality for, for people who have mobility issues.

Monica Olsen (34m 1s):
Yeah, we were both there, or you've been there multiple times, but I got to chance to go recently. It was stunning.

Steve Nygren (34m 8s):
And, you know, Dennis you, you brought up the point of perceptions of the south, and many people are surprised that Atlanta is really a leader in many of these issues. I mean, with, with this building and, and many certified buildings. And can you share some of, some of those statistics or some of that?

Dennis Creech (34m 25s):
Well, first of all, when you say Atlanta, it's the people in Atlanta that they're the leaders. And so again, it's the Steve Nygren's, it's the Ray Anderson's, it's it's a lot of other folks who who've provided leadership both in terms of, in government, but very importantly in the business community. And I would also, you know, put the civic institutions out there as well. And so, so, you know, Southface, obviously I'm proud of the work that Southface has done, but civic institutions like Emory university and Georgia tech, Agnes Scott, tiny little Agnes Scott is, you know, a world leader in sustainability for some of the things it's doing for its size and, and opportunities there.

Dennis Creech (35m 9s):
The business community, Atlanta has led the nation in a national program called the better buildings challenge. And this has been going on for not quite 10 years now, but almost 10 years. So the US department of energy issued a challenge that said by the year 2020, we challenge communities to reduce their energy use 20%. We'll give you 10 years to do it 20%. So Atlanta, by the way said, we'll, we'll do that, but we're going to challenge you back because we're going to do not only energy, but we're going to do water as well. So 20%

Monica Olsen (35m 45s):
Oh I didn't realize that.

Dennis Creech (35m 47s):
Atlanta was the first city. Now everyone has to do water good for them. And so this year, Atlanta just announced that really two years ahead of time, this is based on two 2018 data. It met the 2020 challenge. So over close, over 450 buildings took the challenge representing over a hundred million square feet of commercial building space. And this is every kind of building from, from tall skyscrapers to daycare centers and so homeless shelters to schools. And so they surpass the 20% savings on energy and water.

Steve Nygren (36m 25s):
And many people are expecting west coast cities to be there. And here is Atlanta, Georgia, and that's yeah, Metro Atlanta. And so I think you're right, it's the people, the but Dennis, you were that early drum beater that made many of us aware of these issues. And so I think it's a huge thank you to, to you to, to stepping out there when you were a pretty lone voice out there.

Dennis Creech (36m 49s):
Well, thank you. You know, I'm proud of what Southface has done. It certainly has not been a solo act. And so, and, and the work's not done, you know, I remain concerned that we don't have Serenbe's everywhere out there. And so we need to really double down, especially with climate, you know, is such a pressing issue for us, but not just climate, but water. I mean, every urban area has water challenges now. And so, you know, how do we really address these environmental challenges and create a better world? This is not a world of hardship when you come to Serenbe it, this is not hardship.

Dennis Creech (37m 30s):
This is showing how design and thoughtful construction can help address some of the serious environmental challenges that we're facing.

Monica Olsen (37m 38s):
Is there any last points you want to make or share any projects that you're working on beyond Kendeda right now? Because the building obviously is a huge accomplishment. And I think that is a shining light and point for people to look at a better way to build. I mean, it is absolutely incredible and, you know, they don't have to build the same exact same way, but they can take small parts of it. Like even to your point about the 20,000 two by fours, you know, like, of course, why, why, why aren't we all doing that.

Dennis Creech (38m 6s):
In our building, we we've certainly learned that there are always some, some market headwinds, you know, oh, this green product might cost you 10%, 10% more than a standard product, but it's going to be better for lots of reasons. Often more durable, last longer, save you money in the longterm, but certainly saves on energy and water and things like that. But in addition to those kinds of market headwinds, there are some really, I should say, needless, but I'm just going to call them stupid policy barriers that are out there. And I see Steve is, I think this is resonating with Steve because I think he, he came across some of these policy headwinds, shall we say in doing Serenbe that just keep us from doing smart stuff.

Dennis Creech (38m 50s):
And so, you know, the first thing we need to do stop, stop doing the stupid stuff. And then, you know, and then be smart and push the envelope when we have to, but let's, let's at least get rid of the, the, the barriers out there to just doing smart design. And so, for example, it it's called the Kendeda building for innovative, sustainable design. You know, this is the first commercial building in the south that's been able to use captured rainwater, treat it to some would say a level of safety, maybe higher than what you might get a municipal water and reuse that water on site.

Dennis Creech (39m 32s):
And so there's no reason for, for onerous, you know, policy barriers to be in the market. And so that's one reason that Kendeda was interested in doing this project was to not just build a building. Our goal is not to build a building. Our goal is to change the conversation about how all buildings are designed and constructed and how do we identify some of these policy barriers and get those changed. By the way, the state has been a good partner on this. And so in helping, but, you know, recognizing, well, there are some, some opportunities to here to, to change some policy barriers. So the next person does not have to do this. And I'm going to flip this back to Steve, because I think they were just a few policy barriers

Dennis Creech (40m 13s):
At Serenbe that keeps a wonderful development that, you know, celebrates design and construction from, from being as successful as it could be.

Steve Nygren (40m 22s):
50% of what you see today at Serenbe was not allowed in 2000 for various reasons. You know, in some places it was as silly as granite curbs because there was not an approved installation because they had not been installed in 30 years to federal stormwater regulations who are absolutely the wrong thing to do. And so it was, it was from the small to the huge, and, you know, we, of course we changed total zoning. And so this is a barrier that most developers do not have the time to, to fight because they have generally already borrowed money,

Steve Nygren (41m 4s):
And the interest clock is ticking. Luckily because of my belief at Midtown, I was able to leverage my properties there so that I didn't have that burden when we started and I could stand up and fight and say, close us down, delay us six months if you need to, but that that's a real barrier. And some of that has changed. Some are still there. And I encourage all the university students that come through here that as they get into the field, don't presume because our generation has put rules in place that there are the right rules.

Steve Nygren (41m 39s):
To actually question them and do they make common sense from what they've learned? And that's huge. And, and then bringing the finance community along to really understand the importance and the value of a lot of this. And those are the two big barriers facing the industry as a whole I believe.

Dennis Creech (41m 57s):
It's true. And in, I'll take it back to climate again on, on energy. I mean, we have barriers that prevent solar from being installed in an economical way in some communities. And they're not federal barriers or state barriers, they're barriers frankly, that are set up by local utilities. And so, you know, this is crazy. And so I'm a believer in the free market. And so we need to take away these barriers that don't let the free market work.

Steve Nygren (42m 26s):
And we actually needed to incentivize because one of the most threatened things is our, is our utility grid. And we're really not putting incentives in for regional grids. And it's one of the huge things I think we have to face as a nation.

Dennis Creech (42m 41s):
No, I would agree.

Monica Olsen (42m 44s):
Well thank you so much, Dennis. This has been wonderful. I really appreciate your time and coming in and talking to us.

Steve Nygren (42m 50s):
Thank you, Dennis. You were the real voices for all of us who are willing, and we didn't know where to turn. And you've been there pointing the way down the paths so that we could do this. And, and that's one of the real reasons Atlanta is a leader because you were there pointing the way.

Dennis Creech (43m 8s):
I thank you for those kind words. It's been a two way street, for sure. So many people have learned from the lessons at Serenbe and y'all have been incredibly generous in sharing the wisdom that you've acquired here with your competitors. And so as well as with, you know, those of us in the advocacy world who are trying to, to change some policy and change some minds.

Monica Olsen (43m 32s):
Let's keep making it happen. Thank you guys. People always ask us, how do you build like Serenbe? Whether you're a city planner or developer or an eco-conscious individual with your own project, there are many steps you can take to build a more biophilic centered life and community. Learn how to build at the Nygren and place-making conference this fall, September 21st through 23rd. Or come to the biophilic leadership summit this spring, April 26th through 29th. Perfect for mayors city planners and policy makers. Visit serenbe.com/events for more information on both conferences. We hope to see you there.

Monica Olsen (44m 17s):
Thank you for listening to Serenbe Stories. New episodes are available on Mondays. Please rate and review the podcast and make sure to email your questions for Steve Nygren to stories@serenbe.com. You may even get to hear them on the podcast. More details, episodes, and guests are available on our website, serenbestories.com.