Serenbe is a place where connections between people, nature, and the arts are nourished. Here, we believe that art has the power to shift perspectives and open both hearts and minds. On today’s episode of Serenbe Stories, we are speaking with arts writer and Serenbe resident Gail O’ Neill and artist Curtis Patterson about Curtis’ new permanent installation in Serenbe, Serenity for Shango. This gorgeous piece sits near the entrance to Serenbe and was designed to pay homage to the lineage of African American culture. In this episode, we chat with Gail and Curtis about their backgrounds in the arts, the meaning behind Curtis’ new piece, and why visual art is such an enduring and powerful medium.
Show Notes & Further Reading
Serenbe is a place where connections between people, nature, and the arts are nourished. Here, we believe that art has the power to shift perspectives and open both hearts and minds. On today’s episode of Serenbe Stories, we are speaking with arts writer and Serenbe resident Gail O’ Neill and artist Curtis Patterson about Curtis’ new permanent installation in Serenbe, Serenity for Shango. This gorgeous piece sits near the entrance to Serenbe and was designed to pay homage to the lineage of African American culture. In this episode, we chat with Gail and Curtis about their backgrounds in the arts, the meaning behind Curtis’ new piece, and why visual art is such an enduring and powerful medium.
Show Notes & Further Reading
1 (13s):
Serenbe is a place where connections between people nature and the arts are nourished. We believe that art has the power to shift perspectives and open both hearts and mind. Today, we are speaking with arts writer and Samy resident gala and artist Curtis Patterson about Curtis's new permanent sculpture installation in Serenbe for this gorgeous piece that's near the entrance of Serenbe and was designed to pay homage to the lineage of African American culture. This particular installation came about as a result of passionate residents who wanted to commission a piece to be an enduring beacon of welcome. In this episode, we chat with Gail and Curtis about their backgrounds in the arts, the meaning behind Curtis's new piece and their feeling about the power of art.
2 (58s):
I've gone there a couple times just to the of neighbors came up to me and found out who I was and just took me on a tour. They didn't know me from Adams prior to meeting me that day. So I really a sense of there's one that I would,
3 (1m 20s):
I wanna welcome everybody back to stories. This week, we are very excited to have two guests, Gail O'Neil and Curtis Patterson on the podcast. Gail lives. Part-time in Serenbe. She's actually in New York right now, and then headed to Italy. We're very jealous. She is a television and print journalist, a fashion model, and the editor at large for arts ATL, which is Atlanta's leading arts publication. Curtis is an internationally claimed sculptor whose work has been exhibited all over the world. The us France, Sweden, Nigeria, just to name a few. His work is incredible and celebrates African lineage and invites viewers to interact, explore, and unlock their creativity.
3 (1m 59s):
We're thrilled to fair him and Gale and his latest work serenity for Chango, which will be permanently installed in serenity in just a few weeks from this recording, which means if you're listening right now, you can come see it for yourself. So without further ado, let's get to our interview with GA O'Neal and Curtis Patterson. Hi Curtis. Hey Gail. Hey Steve. How are you guys doing?
4 (2m 25s):
Good morning, Monica. This is Gail Curtis. Nice to meet you E meet you and good morning, Steve.
5 (2m 31s):
Good morning. Always. Good to hear your voice and Curtis. So looking forward to our conversation this morning,
2 (2m 37s):
Thank you very much. I'm looking for conversation as well.
3 (2m 41s):
And Curtis, I heard that this is your first podcast interview.
2 (2m 45s):
It is. I've heard about it, but I've never actually participated in one.
3 (2m 50s):
Well, we hope this will be the first of many. I would like to start off with Gail and ask you as we always do with Serenbe stories to tell us us just a tiny little bit about yourself, but mostly we're curious, how did you first discover Serenbe and what prompted you to come down and make it a part-time home?
4 (3m 9s):
Steven Nygren and I have a mutual friend, Carol Martin. She was my neighbor in Midtown and she's one of these people. Who's always up for an adventure. So when she called me one day and said, girl, you wanna go for a ride in the woods? I said, sure, not knowing that we were gonna wind up at Cy at the very beginning of the project only let's see the blue eyed Daisy was there. Steve's home was built and he was kind enough to give us a tour of his home. He took us to the labyrinth. He told me about sacred geometry, about omega patterns for neighborhood planning. And I thought, what is this place? So subsequent to that visit every time I had a friend or a family come visit from New York, I had migrated from New York to Atlanta in 2000.
4 (3m 50s):
I always made it a point to bring them to Serenbe just because it was such a cool little community.
3 (3m 56s):
I love that. That's great. And then Curtis, what about you? You came to us in a very different way. How did you first learn about Serenbe?
2 (4m 6s):
I did indeed. And now that I've become a part of it, I realize how uninformed I've been because every time I mention someone Serenbe, they said, yeah, I know about it. Go down there for dinner all the time. And I had not heard of it prior to the invitation about a year ago to participate in the call for the piece that I'm doing. So I consider myself more informed. I knew about it. And you guys are really on the map. A lot of people knew about you. It was just that I was uninformed, but it's been a tremendous opportunity. And I've really enjoyed working with the people that I've worked with.
2 (4m 49s):
It feels almost like family. So I really appreciate that.
3 (4m 53s):
Well, we're thrilled to have you, so tell us a little bit about your background, Curtis. We're gonna put a video link and a link to your work in the show notes. I mean, it is incredible, the work that you do, but how did you become a sculptor?
2 (5m 9s):
Well, my undergraduate work was in art education essentially. So I actually taught for 30 years at the Atlanta college of art. And prior to that, the Atlanta college of art, they're now scared. They brought us out, but I taught a public school system for about six years prior to that. And fortunately, when I was teaching at the Atlanta college of art, I had a three day work schedule and I was able to, I got my first commission from the city of Atlanta in 1977 and every so often we've got sabbaticals and it seems like I was really fortunate.
2 (5m 48s):
Most of the commissions that I got fell on the year that I had a sabbatical, but what having only a three day work week, even when I was on sabbatical, I could participate in doing public work. So they worked out really well. And I retired in two seven and I mean from teaching and I've been doing sculpture continuously since then.
3 (6m 13s):
And where did you decide you wanted to do what, what all used the word of sort of monumental pieces? I mean, they're absolutely stunning. So moving, but really, really quite big. And the piece that's gonna be at Serenbe is quite large too, versus say something that you could hold in your hand, or these are really big public works. How did that come to be?
2 (6m 38s):
The first work I did for the city of Atlanta, then I did a couple of pieces for the airport and the scale was pretty much dictated by the venues that did the commission, you know, most of 'em were public pieces and always enjoyed that. I don't consider the piece that you guys would getting to be a large scale pieces. It's only about nine feet tall on the pedestal itself, but I think it's gonna be really nice for that space. I think it's really a good fit. There's this really wonderful canopy. And there was also kind of a circular platform there, which is one of the reasons that I wanted to create a place or a destination for people to come and gather, and it can be a contemplated space.
2 (7m 24s):
It can be a gathering space. There's just a lot of possibilities there. And it's a very serene kind of environment, which is one of the reasons that I wanted to use the term serenity and the titles, because you can really feel that we were there just as can pouring the foundation. It's really amazing how serenbe the area is.
3 (7m 46s):
The pieces is really set within the woods, Steve or Gail. Can you talk a little bit about the location? And then I would love to get into the process of how it came to be like, why this location, was that something that you guys collaborated on Curtis chose, you guys chose?
4 (8m 4s):
I think Steve can probably speak to that. I know Hannah Brandis was one of the leaders on this project and Serenbe met her very graciously saying, how can we help? What can we do? What do you need? And I think that's where Steve comes into the picture.
5 (8m 16s):
That's right. We, as we understood some of the goals and the tremendous art piece that might eventually emerge, we talked about possible locations and I had suggested four locations for them to consider. And so the committee came back to choose the entrance location, and they're starting to just put the foundations in now and you can see how wonderful, what a presence it's going to have yet tucked in the woods, right? As you come in, I'm just delighted that this particular sculpture Curtis is emerging in this place. I think it's just a perfect match on, on what could happen.
3 (8m 51s):
So one of the things that I would love the listeners to know is sort of, of how this project came to be. And maybe Gale, you can kick off that impetus into what was going on culturally societally, and then within C. And then we can talk about the jurors and then was, can you kick a on that a little bit,
4 (9m 12s):
This entire project from start to finish, Monica has gone at warp speed if I recall correctly. And of course the pandemic is a big blur. We were probably at the start of 2021 when America was in the midst of this racial reckoning. And again, Hannah Brandis came to me who, who had not even moved to Seren be yet. She was building her home in motto while she was living in Boston, but she came to me and said, I want to do something to make sure that all Atlantans feel welcome here. A, do you feel like that's important? And B how can we do this? She was thinking in terms of a piece of public art. And I said, Hannah, you know, in terms of welcoming, I've always been a person who could go through the world and make myself feel welcome.
4 (9m 53s):
I really don't need someone to roll out a red carpet, but as I was walking through, I think I was walking through Grange. One day, I saw a huge black lives matter banner in front of a neighbor's home. And I've had the warmest feeling inside. Like I never talked to people about politics. I don't wave flags myself. I don't expect other people to do so, but when I saw this banner, it touched something inside of me. And so I said to Hannah, if, if it made me feel that way, I can only imagine how it would make someone feel if they were coming to Seren be for the first time and not knowing whether or not they were welcomed, not knowing whether or not they were like-minded neighbors here, neighbors who were conscious neighbors who wanted to reconcile and at least acknowledge our past as Americans for better and for ill.
4 (10m 37s):
And so that's all Hannah needed. She was often running. She was in conversation with many neighbors here and they decided that a public art project would be the most appropriate gesture from Seren be. And because of my connection to the art world, as a writer, I was able to lead them to people with whom they could be in conversation. And also artists like Curtis, who they might want to consider as they were starting a jury selection process. And here we are a year and a half later
3 (11m 4s):
Is a fast moving project. And I think the fact that Hannah and the team, they're not art curators, this isn't a process that they'd ever done. They just, something wanted to do something. So they came to you who really had the background and brought in some incredible jurors. And so tell us when you were first approached by this, were you approached by one of the jurors? How did you first the desire to sort of have a public sculpture at?
2 (11m 36s):
I was from Wanda Hughes, I believe. And I think it was fairly generic. I think it went out to about 17 artists and I got the invitation initially and I thought, well, I don't know if I really want to do this. First of all, because it was, it says the black art project and you can very easily become pigeonhole as an African American artist is not being able to do anything but that. So I was a little bit reluctant, but anyway, I got another invitation and I decided to go to the meeting and I think it was at, I forget whose home it was in, but I remember meeting Steve there and he told us a lot about the community.
2 (12m 20s):
And of course I had an opportunity to, to go to the site and I thought, wow, this would really be wonderful because it is tailored for the kind of things that I've been doing. But I just didn't want to be pigeonholing, not being able to do anything other than that, but I'm glad I did. It's, it's been a tremendous opportunity in working with the people and we're in the process of trying to get the piece completed in the studio. I'm in there 12 to 14 hours a day. We're gonna try and install a couple of weeks, if not, there's at least one week after that, we might be able to install. But we're excited about where we are right now,
4 (12m 59s):
Monica to Curtis' point about not wanting to be pigeonholed. That was also my reluctance. When Hannah wanted to name the project, the black art project, I believe that art is so much more expansive. We, humans can be very, very reductive in the way that we think of ourselves and think of one another. So I can't tell you how impressed I was when I saw the video of a big gathering in which Curtis was speaking, and someone was asking him about being a black American. He said, first of all, I consider myself an earthling. And I thought, my man, that is exactly what you are. You are magnificent, you are magnanimous. You are bigger than any one little aspect of your personality, your race, your ethnicity, your nationality.
4 (13m 42s):
So Curtis, I take my hat off to you and I cannot wait to see this piece.
2 (13m 46s):
Well, thank you very much.
3 (13m 48s):
So Curtis, tell us about the piece serenity for Shango. You talked a little bit about the location has sort of a serene feeling and that might be part of it, but what Chango
2 (13m 60s):
Congo is dear of the tribe. And it's really a figure with a double ax, which means to strike. I use a double iron actually to indicate the significance of domestic labor for the people of color. And there's also connecting elements called number, which is from gain that has to do with, they use it for celebration of crops. They have dances to celebrate fertility. There's a, another element that says circular ring that has to do with the unification of people of the African continent. And there are two elements on top of that, connecting those elements that are symbolic of a middle bust plow for harvesting.
2 (14m 48s):
And they're two elements extended out from the plow. The handles actually serve as kinda a welcoming arm to pedestrian as they're actually entering the fight. And the piece is gonna be out of stainless steel. I think it's gonna be very visible in all seasons, even when the vegetation is on the trees. I think you'll be able to see it. It's not overbearing because it's not too large, but I think it has really a pretty nice human scale. And I think people will, hopefully they will enjoy it. There's also heating stations. Their stools, Shante stools were created and Ghana and their five stools around the piece.
2 (15m 31s):
So you can actually sit, read the books, come out and enjoy nature and walk around the piece. It's somewhat interactive from that perspective.
3 (15m 43s):
Well, and I was just on a call yesterday, learning a little bit more about it and how you guys are gonna launch it and inaugurate the piece, if you will. And I heard there's gonna be some music that maybe has yet to be chosen. Is that playing all the time there or is when I up to will of the
2 (16m 8s):
That's interesting question, work that out completely. Yeah. In terms of the selection of music. But we do know that we would like to include it. The only thing about the music there could be someone seated there trying to enjoy nature or just the serene environment and the type of music is gonna be very important. So we decided to just wait until we got the piece installed and we're gonna do some trials and see how they're coming, but I would like sound to be involved in it, but we haven't really down to what that sound would be at this point.
4 (16m 46s):
Monica, can I ask Curtis a question?
3 (16m 49s):
Of course.
4 (16m 50s):
Okay. And this comes about Curtis, because the first time I brought my family to the labyrinth at CVI, we talked from the entrance to the center part and then exiting. And there was a CVI neighbor who very generously and graciously explained to us when we were done, not in a judgmental way, that the point of a labyrinth is to enter with a question in mind, to walk through the space it's supposed to be contemplative, not interactional. And then when you come to the center, you reach the conclusion, you get an answer and then you exit. So in other words, we were blabbing when we should have been silent. So I wonder, Curtis, how do we respect these Ashanti stools and the centerpiece? Is there a protocol around that?
4 (17m 30s):
Is there something I should know when I enter? So I'm not the ignorant American going in there and blundering through the way I did the labyrinth?
2 (17m 39s):
No. I mean, I think it depends on you, whatever you'd like to do, it's on the pedestrian path. So you just kinda encounter it. You can actually enter and exit without obstruction. You can walk around the piece and not stumble over the stools. I mean, you could just continue through and not do anything. Or if you want to pause momentarily and kind of explore or sit there momentarily, that's a possibility also, but hopefully there'll be kind of a gathering space for people to come and enjoy collectively or individually.
4 (18m 13s):
And will those stainless steel stools heat up in the dead of summer? Like, will I sit on and go, Ooh, you know, like a cartoon character. I'm just wondering about these practicalities. Yeah.
2 (18m 25s):
That is a very, very good question. I did a piece for Roy Wilkins up in St. Paul of the state capital grounds some years ago. And it was right out in the sun. Of course, this piece was done out of bronze and it had seating stations on it also. And one of the things that they were concerned about is what you were concerned about. And they were absolutely right. Of course I had not given any thought to it, but what we decided to do was actually put over the benches in the same shape, but it's just wood, which would not soak up the heat, like the metal wood. But I think in this case, because of the really wonderful canopy that we have over the piece, I mean, it's really actually covered.
2 (19m 10s):
I don't think there will be an issue with these pieces at all because the sign is gonna be indirect. But that, that's a very good question.
3 (19m 18s):
Steve, can you tell us a little bit more about the space? This area was originally a separate piece of property that has changed hands a few times is now incorporated into Seren be how large is this, what we're calling deer hollow park. And what's your sort of vision as well as I know, there's the art farm here that will be taking on the piece and managing it, making sure that it in the condition ongoing, what do you sort of see is the future of that deer hollow park, Steve,
5 (19m 49s):
Where the sculpture is sitting is part of land. That's been part of ceremony at the entrance. It's just been a forest area as you drive in. And it is that transition. You know, many times people are expecting when you arrive somewhere for the first time, they're expecting gates. They're expecting all sorts of things that we've come to think of with development entrances through the years. And so we were very intentional on having this, a rural forested looking area. And the first things you have seen in is the stables, the large stables. So that really enforces the agrarian. So this piece sits right inside the entrance.
5 (20m 29s):
This will now be the first thing that you will see through the woods, but it so incorporates with the natural landscape that it's, it's not obtrusive at all. That's so wonderful about this. And there's right next to it is 10 acres that we had purchased part of a historic farm. The shell families had the land since the 18 hundreds. And then when they sold it, I bought it as part of our holdings when we were still in retirement, before we dreamt of doing the development and we sold 10 acres of that land for friends. First through rebel that were gonna do at cooking school in their home there that never happened. And then they sold it to John and Karen and they were gonna build their great house there and that never happened.
5 (21m 15s):
And so now we've incorporated it back into Serenbe and it's going to have some estate laws, but the greater part of the open area is gonna be incorporated into this land next to our entrance. And so that entire area we named dear hollow, and there'll be open fields behind this. So the path that Curtis mentioned will lead on to open fields for passive recreation and events. This is a field that Terminus has performed in, in the past are contemporary dance group. So some people might be familiar with it. So this will all be developed in a very landscaped natural way. Now
3 (21m 54s):
That's fantastic. So I wanna turn back to the arts for a second. And this is sort of a question for maybe Gail first and then Curtis with your arts background and all the work that you do. It's so important. We hugely believe Serenbe the art farm, all of us. Like it can really change your life, right? Art can just move you. And sometimes it's inexplicable. You don't know what it's doing. You're standing in front of a piece or you're feeling a piece of music. Tell me a little bit about what drew you in Gale to the arts originally and why do you stay? And maybe I'll even do a quick add on cuz we talked before we got on the podcast about other artists and their generosity with you.
4 (22m 37s):
I was drawn into the arts by Kathy Fox, who was the founder of arts ATL. At the time I was writing a blog and I'd written a movie review of the film bell and it was sent to Cathy by a mutual friend. And she asked if she could annotate it for arts ATLs website. I had never heard of arts ATL, but I said, sure, because I never say no to any opportunities or chance to learn something new. And subsequent to that, Kathy asked if I would do a book review. And then if I would review a show at the high museum and I just kept saying yes and I had never written about the arts before, but I know how they make me feel. And so through that entree, I was able to meet the most incredible artists throughout Atlanta's landscape dancers, actors, writers, painters, and in learning more about them.
4 (23m 23s):
Monica, I learned more about not only the general population by learn more about myself. I learned about how disarming the arts can be, how it can capture our imaginations and our intellects when we least expect it, soften us, open us up to other people's perspectives and just make us better stewards and citizens of one another's humanity. So that's what keeps me here. And then, then what I was saying to you earlier about the arts is that, and this is something O Cori Johnson. He's known as, okay, cello this brilliant cellist who I think will actually be participating in the opening ceremony of this new public art installation at Cy. Wonderful. He said to me that he's practiced art in New York and in Washington DC, where he's from in Los Angeles, but that no other city rivals Atlanta in terms of the generosity that artists offer to one another, they're willing to share contacts.
4 (24m 14s):
They're willing to big up one another as we'd say in Jamaica, because they don't see opportunity as a zero sum game. They see it. If you are rising, then I'm rising too. I get something from that. And so I think that we're very lucky to be in Atlanta for that reason.
3 (24m 29s):
I think that's beautiful. I really like that. And I think we should be celebrating that more and more. So Curtis, you know, obviously you've spent your entire career in arts and education and then now since oh seven really focused on your work. So is there somebody that you feel was really generous to you that maybe was a turning point or has driven you, or if you felt like held you up that you wanna acknowledge or share?
2 (24m 55s):
I think I'd like to cite my high school. I didn't take art in high school. I took a graphic design class and one of the teachers told me one day I was about 16 years old and he told me, he thought I had a really good for design. And that was just such a, such an indelible experience for me. I hold onto it to this day. And I think he was responsible for actually mean choosing art as, as a career, as I look back on it and I've met some of my professors at the Georgia state were very influential also.
2 (25m 38s):
And a lot of the African American artists, there was an, an exhibition that was held here in Atlanta when I was in undergraduate school, back in the sixties for African Americans, because there were really no venues for African Americans to their work. It was called the Clark a by wood. Interesting, since I mentioned his name, he a over at Atlanta university that has sh in it. And it's the first time I saw that image and I was just really intrigued by the power of the image itself.
2 (26m 19s):
And that's one of the reasons that for the last few years I've been kind studying that and that's has a lot to do with the piece that I did for you guys. But yeah, I've had a lot of positive influences in my life and I'm sure I'm leaving somebody else, but
Anyway,
2 (26m 39s):
It's been a very positive experience.
4 (26m 41s):
Monica, I would like to encourage listeners to visit two of Atlanta's most underutilized resources. And that would be the Clark Atlanta university museum of art and Spelman's museum of fine art. Their permanent collections are unparalleled. They have pieces that places like LACMA, the Los Angeles county museum of art yeah. Is trying to obtain now. So all I can say is run, do not walk and visit both of these resources. You can just walk in. They're welcoming. I think they recommend masking, but that's up to the individual.
3 (27m 15s):
Exactly. Well, we'll put links to both of those so people can look at their times that they're open. That's a great, great tip. I think I'll just say that the mentors of educators and those young impressionable times are so important. And I think some having something like a public sculpture that anybody can come to kids old young is so important because you just never know what's gonna move you. And what's gonna maybe be a tipping point or a catalyst to move your life into a new way. Wanted to wrap up and ask a question that we ask everybody. And I'll throw this again. Maybe to both of you guys is what is one thing that you would tell somebody that's visiting?
3 (27m 56s):
What should they do? What can't they miss? And I don't know, Gail, if you wanna go first as a part-time resident and then Curtis, I'd be super curious. Now, now that you're informed, now that you're here, what is that thing? Or is there a thing?
4 (28m 10s):
The first thing that captivated me was the architecture and the intentionality behind how the neighborhoods were created and then the Dr. Sushi and light sculptures and the newer more modern light sculptures. But I would say that the thing that people should not miss is the opportunity to engage with residents. Just say, good morning or good afternoon, and feel free to ask, how did you find this place? Because I guarantee you will hear the most extraordinary stories about how people came to buy a cupcake from the blue eye Daisy, because they saw it in the cupcake challenge and they wound up buying a home here. So what you will find are people who are moved by intuition and who respect that instinct enough to act on it, to not question well, you know, I didn't plan to be here.
4 (28m 53s):
I'm not a Georgian. What do I know? I don't know anybody who people just feel and then they respond. So just say, as Maya Angelou would say, good morning,
3 (29m 3s):
That's
6 (29m 3s):
A beautiful summary. And I think that's what people feel on the street because there is a greater openness than people are used to cuz people that lead with their heart tend to be more open in general. So, great summary. Now,
4 (29m 18s):
Steve, I take my hat off to you. I see you as the sun that has brought together this extraordinary constellation. I don't know how you did it. Some people feel like Seren be, is a sacred space. I guess you're the shaman
6 (29m 32s):
Nature somehow pulled me in as a steward of this land at this time. And I see myself as that current guardian, but being a hospitality person, I've also known how to invite the right people to the table to create what we now know as serenity and that table keeps getting larger and more diverse and more exciting all the time.
2 (29m 53s):
How did the Sarah become about Steve?
6 (29m 56s):
It called intuitive, as GA said, there was no logical reason bother about site a Sunday afternoon to visit farm animals. And it changed my life. We moved here and in my sixth year of retirement, we looked at what we could do to save this great land from traditional urban, which had not reached out into the Southwest quarter of Atlanta, but it was on its way. It, we looked at the underside of England and the English land laws after world war II that has preserved the countryside and yet accommodated a large population in the Hamlet's villages in town. And so we set about to show how that could be done on American soil.
2 (30m 37s):
Okay.
3 (30m 38s):
Well, Curtis, now that you've been invited to the table, is there something that you would share to your friends and family like, Ugh, this is an interesting place and maybe you should check out this one thing, obviously beyond your sculpture.
2 (30m 52s):
One of the things that I was really impressed with was the lab. I thought that was really exciting. And when Steve told us how it was actually done by having the residency actually builds it, I thought that was, that was really pretty amazing. I've been involved in this project for about a year now, but I haven't really spent a lot of time there on campus. That's the one thing that I do remember being very impactful to me. And of course the people that I've interacted with have just been so warm and I've gone there a couple times just to the site. And couple of the neighbors came up to me and found out who I was and just took me on a, they didn't know me from Adams prior to meeting me that day.
2 (31m 39s):
So really chose a sense of being welcome there. And it's the one thing that I would share with people.
3 (31m 48s):
Wow. That's wonderful, Curtis. I appreciate it. Is there anything else, scale or Curtis you guys wanna share with our listeners today? Obviously we invite everybody to come out and see the piece, which by the time this airs, it will be installed and we'll put details in the show notes of how to get there and how to find it. It's open to the public anytime, but any last words or how we can support both of you guys,
4 (32m 10s):
I would like to say thank you to Wanda Hughes. Wanda's the one who found Curtis just by Googling. You know, I had a list of people whom I'd written about in the past and so on Curtis, I'd never heard of you before, but I went down the rabbit hole and I cannot wait to see your piece in place. And I just wanna say thank you to Wanda for bringing you to us. I'm very grateful.
2 (32m 30s):
Thank you,
3 (32m 32s):
Curtis. Any final words? I don't know if you do social media, if we can follow you anywhere or how we can support your work.
2 (32m 39s):
I just had a show in Savannah, which is closed. Now. I have another show coming up in the same show is gonna travel to Richmond, Virginia, and it opens in November and I'll also be participating in art basil in Miami, in December of this year. I'm not much of a social media stuff, but those are a couple things that are coming up.
3 (33m 3s):
Okay, good. Well, we'll, we'll share those out with everybody and those would be phenomenal for if people are in the area or make that trip to go see both of them. Well, thank you guys so much. I just am thrilled. Gail. I've known you for quite some time. Curtis. I look forward to meeting you at the and sharing your stories with.