Serenbe Stories

Pollinators, Songbirds, and Creepy Crawlies with Thomas Peters

October 24, 2022 Serenbe Media Network Season 7 Episode 10
Serenbe Stories
Pollinators, Songbirds, and Creepy Crawlies with Thomas Peters
Show Notes Transcript

This week on Serenbe Stories, we’re chatting with Thomas Peters, Sernebe’s Director of Landscape and Horticulture, all about the creatures that call Serenbe home - from songbirds and butterflies to snakes and other creepy crawlies (Halloween is just around the corner, after all). Thomas joined the Serenbe team in 2017 after receiving his Master’s degree in Landscape Architecture from the University of Georgia. In his time here, he has played a central role in implementing natural approaches to landscape management, planting pollinator habitats for a thriving local ecosystem, and ensuring that Serenbe remains a place where people embrace the natural world. In addition to our discussion about Serenbe’s wildlife, we also talk about Thomas’s lifelong passion for the outdoors and how we can all learn to value nature in its many forms. 

Show Notes & Further Reading

1 (13s):
Thomas Peters joined San B as the director of landscape and Horticulture in 2017 after receiving his master's degree in landscape architecture from UGA at the University of Georgia. In that time, Thomas has played a central role implementing natural approaches to landscape management, planning pollinator habitats for a thriving local ecosystem and ensuring that CBE remains a place where people embrace the natural world. Of course, in a thriving ecosystem, the creatures we love like butterflies, beads, and chip bunks also means we have to deal with creatures that many of us are less fond of, like mosquitoes, armadillos, and snakes. In today's episode, we sit down with Thomas to talk about his passion for the outdoors, learning to embrace nature in all its forms.

1 (54s):
And because Halloween is just around the corner, some of the creepy crawlies that call Seren B Home,

2 (1m 1s):
I wear a lot of hats. That's one of the best parts about seren B is it's always changing. It's very dynamic, but it's a perfect mixture of my passions and my educational background and I never get bored here. There's always something exciting to be a part of.

1 (1m 18s):
Hi everybody. Welcome back to Seren B stories. Today we have Thomas Peters and we're very excited to hear his Sarah b story. Thomas has been with Sarah B working with us for a number of years, but I want him to tell us all about his background and experience and as we always ask our guests, what is your B story? Thomas?

2 (1m 39s):
Thank you Monica. I've been here at Sarah B for five years now. I started October, 2017. Before that I was in Athens, Georgia. I lingered a little bit there. After graduate school I was doing landscape contracting, particularly in natural resource restoration for the state Botanical Garden of Georgia. I had some contracts with the National Park Service and the Forest Service. Before that I was in Knoxville, Tennessee. I got my undergraduate in border culture and all along the way I was always landscaping as my job and I've always been an outdoorsman and I spend most of my time outdoors any chance I can.

1 (2m 20s):
And you also went to school at uga, right?

2 (2m 24s):
That's right. I'm sorry. Yeah, so I was getting my master's in landscape architecture at Georgia.

1 (2m 29s):
I love it. And one of the reasons that we found you, was that through your professor Alphie Vick or did you know about Sarah B when you were in Athen?

2 (2m 38s):
That is exactly how I found out about Sarah. B Alphie called me and recommended that I reach out to y'all about a position and I couldn't be happier than I did.

1 (2m 48s):
Steve, do you remember that day?

3 (2m 50s):
Oh, I remember. We realized we were growing and we had so many initiatives that we really wanted to bring in and and so I asked Al if who knew of someone and he says, I know of one person but I don't know if if he would like a corporate structure, but let me talk to him. And so then he said that meeting for Thomas to come down and Thomas was a pretty independent guy at that point and he wasn't sure about this and, but we convinced you to come give it a try and I'm certainly glad we did. It's been a great having Thomas onboard and you know, five years later we're just kind of getting in position to head where we wanted to. We've had so many, I guess, emergencies or things that had to happen.

1 (3m 31s):
What were some of the early things that you were doing Thomas, and how has your role changed a bit?

2 (3m 36s):
Well I think my first priority was just building or rebuilding the grounds crew and getting on top of maintenance and creating processes for the team to better serve the community. So that was sort of my first responsibility. But I also work closely with the development team. I'm part of the Landscape Design Review board. I've grown to be a part of several committees including the Art Farm Environmental Council. I'm actually the chair of the newly formed B City committee, which Chattahoochee Hills is now officially a B City designated by the Xerxes Society. So I wear a lot of hats. That's one of the best parts about seren B is it's always changing.

2 (4m 18s):
It's very dynamic, but it's a perfect mixture of my passions and my educational background and I never get bored here. There's always something exciting to be a part of.

1 (4m 30s):
When you first came and Alphie told you about it, had you ever seen anything like it? Did it seem like it would be a really good sort of platform for your talents?

2 (4m 39s):
It seemed like the perfect platform for my talents and no, I had never seen anything like it and I never expected to work for a community or an hoa. It was very surprising to me. But the community had open arms. A lot of folks have become almost like family to me. They were very supportive. It was better than anything I could have imagined.

1 (5m 2s):
I wanna talk about the B City a little bit. So that I think is pretty cool. I think all of us, wherever we're working, in order to like grow and do new things, you're gonna have your basics that you're continuing to do year to year. But when you get to layer on these new ideas, tell us a little bit about what is B City? How did that all come together? Was it something that was driven by Chad Hills, the city residents in Sandby and how are they sort of connected?

2 (5m 27s):
B City is a certification from the SE Society for Invertebrate Conservation. And it's similar to but a little different from like the Tree City idea. There's measures in place to protect pollinators and some of the requirements include an annual pollinator event, which Bear Creek we're working with Bear Creek Nature Center to bolster their preexisting pollinator event. The team, the council I guess, or committee also has members from the Art Farm Environmental Committee. They've helped a lot with this initiative, the Seren B Residential Landscape Committee. The chair is Mary Collins Shepherd and she has just really championed the entire process.

2 (6m 8s):
They've worked to create signage, they've helped us install two pollinator gardens, one in Saray, one at Bear Creek Nature Center. We even grew just from volunteers taking cuttings from plants around the community zero investment. We grew over 800 pollinator plants last fall.

1 (6m 28s):
Wow.

2 (6m 28s):
Yeah, they found homes all over the place. So there's a lot more to come. You know, my goals in the future are to have a booth at Ray Day, maybe even have a booth at the market with things like pollinator habitats and local honey and educational materials as well.

1 (6m 44s):
I love it. I love it. I know that signage is about to get released and be installed and so people who are listening, you'll be able to come to the pollinator garden and there's gonna be amazing signage and education around it. One of the things that I think sort of shocks people about c b is that you have all these great arts and restaurants and a lot of culture, but we're still really rural. And a lot of people come for both, right? They wanna get out of the city, they want sort of a country lifestyle, but they still wanna get a cup of coffee. And I don't know the New York Times and go to a play, but one of the things that shocks those city people is some of the wildlife, right? We get excited, like when I lived in the city, like a squirrel was exciting, but you come down to there and be, and you're coming in and you're seeing cows and horses and when you stay at the end there's sheep and goats and chickens.

1 (7m 33s):
But there's also other stuff. We've got other wildlife and I think one of the opportunities as a resident and or somebody even who's visiting is to sort of think about how we may not be used to those things, but we have to kind of maybe rethink about these critters in these animals and how we can coexist with them. How can people, or how do you feel like people think about embracing nature and the wildlife, whether that's a deer or a snake, What do you hear from people and do you see people's minds changing when they live here?

2 (8m 6s):
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I think almost everybody, one of the main reasons they've come here is to be closer to nature. We view our grounds and even our residential landscapes as an extension of the forest around us. So we're literally enveloped by the ecosystems that sustain us and versus some urban areas and especially suburban areas where the landscape and browns are, you want it to be real clean, real sterile, you know, clean lines everywhere. And that requires a lot of work, a lot of sometimes chemicals and things. So we think very differently about our approach and that invites, like you're saying, all kinds of visitors.

2 (8m 46s):
So we're gonna have the squirrels and we might have deer munching on our azals or that kind of thing. And I get, I'd say at least, I mean mean it's approaching 50% of the tickets that we receive are, Hey, there's a snake. I saw a snake today. Or you

1 (9m 2s):
Know,

2 (9m 3s):
Something about out. Certainly armadillos, they're all over the place. And it's so funny how those are my favorite tickets cuz they're just so easy to solve. A lot of times it's just a little conversation, little explanation, Hey don't worry about that wasp nest, it's too far away to damage anybody. And they're pollinating things and killing harmful pest insects in the process. So people are usually pretty responsive to learning and they kind of change their views. It's surprising to me sometimes how quickly people are like, Oh okay, I don't have to worry about that. Okay, good.

1 (9m 36s):
Right. And when you mention a ticket, the hoa, the Homeowner's Association, we have what we refer internally is like a ticketing system. And so if something, you need some help from the homeowner's association, you can quote, put in a ticket and it gets tracked. And so sometimes it's pay, can you help me take out this larger piece of trash or I need something done in my front yard. And then sometimes it's like exactly what you're saying. Like Oh my god, there's this huge wasp meth, what do we do? And I also get just on the street, people will stop us and I mean I've sent stuff to you Thomas, of like, what is this? You know, is this good? Is this bad? Is this hurting my tree? What are some of the more kind of fun questions that you've gotten That again, I sort of couch it as city folk, somebody I grew up in the suburbs, you know, you came to the country and it's just a different acceptability and connection to nature and how again, in a very positive way, you just have to be smart about it.

1 (10m 30s):
Is there any fun stories?

2 (10m 32s):
Absolutely. I mean obviously we get the ones where someone saw something in passing and we would never be able to catch up to that individual animal, nor would we necessarily do anything about it. But also I think every year the time baby deer are being born, we get a lot of folks who are like just really worried. They saw baby deer, it was laying down somewhere and they just, the mom wasn't around, gotta do something, gotta rescue it, gotta call wildlife resources. We had one this past spring laying right in the middle of Crossroads Beded down and that's their mothers, just like with cattle, will bed them down during the day so they can go about their business without drawing the attention of predators or exhausting their babies.

2 (11m 16s):
And then they a hundred percent, unless some emergency happens, they come right back to that baby and feed her or take care of it. That's just the pattern of parenthood for those animals. And there's no emergency there. And I can honestly say a hundred percent of the time I've gotten a concerned resident or we even had a builder one time who had one embedded down in an unfinished garage. The mom always comes back and takes care of the baby. I think that that's kind of humorous to me, but it's just one of those things people are unfamiliar with.

1 (11m 47s):
One of the things, I'm trying to remember if we've talked about it, Steve, is the white cows, I don't know if we've talked about it on a podcast, but we've done done some blogs about it. Can you guys talk about the white cows that are here? They're not what I would say native, but they're part of the wildlife. Tell us a little bit about those guys.

3 (12m 4s):
Our artist friend Robert Rouse, became part of an effort to reestablish the ancient white, which is a grazing herd that's basically disappeared. And so we agreed to take a few and start a herb here. They weren't our pastures, but they're used to roaming and so they didn't stay within fences. And I thought it was kind of cool. It reminded me of the new forest in England where the animals just roam freely. But when people would be on a walk and it'd come around the corner and there was one of these big white animals with these incredible horns looking at 'em, it it frightened them. So we had to move them and so we moved them to the east end of our property, which is where Thomas lives.

3 (12m 44s):
And so he sort of become the caretaker now of our ancient white cattle herd.

1 (12m 49s):
Didn't think that was gonna be part of your job, did you Thomas?

2 (12m 52s):
I did not expect that, but it has been really cool. I'll say, I mean I, I can't imagine a more picturesque scene for where I live. I love engaging with the cattle, like Steve said, big horns and they look scary, but they're really sweet. I have a new appreciation for them. I've even raised an abandoned baby by bottle feeding it. I spend a lot of time out there, it's kind of funny. But I've really reduced the amount of beef that I even consume just because I see these animals and interact with them on a daily basis.

1 (13m 25s):
Yeah, that's interesting. The animal village at the end. So when you're an in guest, that's one of the benefits or if you come to the farmhouse, do you think of, is it the animals? Everybody always asks, are you eating them or like, No, no, no, they're just our little neighbors here. So what other creatures? And maybe I should tell a story on myself. When we first moved in oh nine, our kids were two and four and I think truly the first weekend we were here it was like one sat down on like a stair area and there was a red ants and got bitten by red ants. The other one was playing in the field. And during bath time we found it thick and all of these things were happening. We're like, what have we done? Where have we moved?

1 (14m 4s):
But then there was this like amazing rainstorm that night and on our front doors have a glass inset. There was like an incredible frog attached to the like, you know like his little feet attached to the glass. And at the end of the rainstorm, which was sort of this contrast of this if you will, not the best experiences with little creatures and then like a positive experience with creatures. And then we just learned get a tick twister, get the tick off and just check yourself and you start to learn what a red ant hill looks like. Don't sit down next to one. So for us, that was sort of our entry. We bought this glorious place, we're so excited and we were like, oh no, what have we done? These kids are getting eaten up. But I find that it's education.

1 (14m 45s):
Do you find that people come around to the things like we just remember don't walk in the high grass for triggers, right? What other kind of things like that are people coming to you that I think we can turn them around with education that maybe not the interaction you wanted with nature, but you just have to know how to manage it.

2 (15m 1s):
Yeah, I mean most people come around because we discuss a lot. If you want to have the honey bees and the butterflies and the beautiful things, then you have to accept the occasional mosquitoes and ants and roaches and things because if you wanna eradicate one or get rid of it through chemical means, then the others will be negatively affected. And that's nature is just a balancing act and I'd like to see more and more C and b residents understanding that and coming around to that. And you can learn to avoid things like fire amp mounds and poison ivy and there's ways to get rid of them even without harsh chemicals and things. It might be a little more work or you're going around thinking outside the box.

2 (15m 45s):
But that's what we do. I really don't even notice mosquitoes don't bother me that much here because of our natural approaches that we take in management. There's more predator species like dragonflies and bats and a lot of people don't even realize hummingbirds eat mosquitoes. A lot of times they need a protein source along with the sugars and the nectar source. So we have a lot of coffee talks here in seren B and we have a lot of opportunities to converse with residents and, but it's really just not that bad here. The bugs and everything, I feel like we're more towards a balanced ecosystem.

1 (16m 20s):
You mentioned the natural approach to grounds management. Tell us a little bit about that because you do see in other communities people who are spraying their lawns to get rid of the mosquitoes, but to your point, you're killing all the other good bugs too, if you will. So talk about that approach to the natural approach that you and Steve work on together.

2 (16m 40s):
I like to think of it as kind of framing the messy. We try to, like for example, one strike all we mow, we minimize the amount that we mow because we like to see our road size and grasses mature to form seed so they complete their life cycle and the seed feeds birds, same with the wildflowers that you see on our roadside. So I I, we really try to mow as little as possible for that reason. Something like as simple as leaf litter, which a lot of communities they see that as just almost garbage, right? It's gotta be removed, you gotta get it out here and take it somewhere else. And I really try to, aside for from stormwater reasons, needing to keep them out of our streets and drains, I try to leave as much as possible in the residence landscape.

2 (17m 26s):
You know in the landscape beds it's basically free mulch. It provides layers for insects, a beneficial insects and pollinators to pupate even mods, particularly mods like to pupate and leaf litter. And when you scour all that stuff and remove it, you're removing those insects as well. It also insulates the plants for moisture. So I like to leave the leaves as they fall, but I also like to get in a layer of pine straw before the holiday season just to clean things up and we can usually lay that right over top of the leaves and then you just get a good mix of a humus forming of rich natural, you know, you allow soil to form and that way it's really just kind of allowing sometimes things to get a little overgrown and maybe for weeds to grow.

2 (18m 11s):
If you get caught up in removing every single tiny weed, then you know you're just spinning wheels. And sometimes I find that the weeds are our best friends, Like certain things like golden rod or Verna that pop up in our common area beds. A lot of times I leave them and let 'em grow and the next we've got a drought resistant ground cover that provides nectar for pollinators and I didn't have to do anything, just observe it and let it be.

1 (18m 37s):
Well, and I think that's a good lesson. Ryan Gainey who was a lot of inspiration in the beginning and had worked with Steve on various property areas here and at his previous home, Ryan had a book called The Well-Placed Weed. And I think that as well as I believe when we talked to Alphie, you know, what is a weed, right? Maybe your weed is not my weed. To your point about like the golden rod is beautiful, I see that in the back of our house on the side then it's gorgeous. And so when people want it to be more manicured or more it's, I'll use the term like more of a country club, look, don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful look, but that's just not who we are. Right? And I think that sort of sets the tone of not only living with nature and also sort of the authenticity, right?

1 (19m 24s):
That life is kind of messy, life is not perfect. And if we're trying to like force nature into this vision of that we have, are we even honoring it? To your point, I think that's really interesting to think about the life cycle of a roadside graph that if you're mowing it down then those seeds aren't coming out and whether they're feeding or populating and little things like that to me are super exciting to learn because then I appreciate it even better. Like you do something Thomas like or your team does where you just sort of mow a section of like off the street, what's that called? It has a term,

2 (19m 57s):
It's a cue to care or a, you know, you're framing messy landscapes. There's a landscape effect who wrote a paper called Framing Messy Landscapes because okay, there is a big movement for for reducing that kind of aggressive approach and mowing and pollinators are on record decline and biodiversity in general is becoming less and less. It helps, cuz I do understand people don't want grasses brushing all over 'em when they're walking down the sidewalk. So it helps to just kind of frame it with a simple pass like that. Like one pass.

1 (20m 29s):
Yeah, I love this one. People wouldn't get a photo of it and we'll put it in the show note. We've talked about the little guys and we've talked about the deer a little bit. What else do we have here? Again in the cities, like a squirrel was exciting, probably really embarrassing and sad statements make, but now what else do we have here?

2 (20m 46s):
We've got, believe it or not, a lot of raccoons and possums, they're nocturnal. You can see 'em kind of crawling around at night and those raccoons are so smart and dextrous with their little front paws that if you put your trash out a day early with our in-ground trash receptacles, which are great cuz we don't have these rolling trashcans all over the place. They're great visually, but they're also a raccoon buffet. So we like to encourage people to put your trash out the morning of pickup or just put a rock on the lid so those little guys don't get in there. There's a ton of armadillos. They, armadillos are A new thing in the east. They're arguably an invasive species.

2 (21m 27s):
They didn't, they weren't here before a couple decades ago and they're doing really well. So the, the residents are always having trouble with armadillos, rooting around in their landscapes, but particularly those that either over irrigate and draw a lot of worms up and bugs to the area that they're attracted. Ah, those that use the mulch products versus the pine straw, which I prefer the pine straw just because it actually reduces the armadillos still get in there, but a lot less often than the mulch. It doesn't require chipping up trees, it's kind of more passive. It's a passive product of forestry and long needle pine forestry and in Georgia is a big industry.

2 (22m 8s):
And so it's nice to be able to use a byproduct of forestry versus a direct product of deforestation, which mulch a lot of times is,

1 (22m 17s):
That's a really good point that I wouldn't have even put that together in my head. I'm like, oh it's, it's mulch. But you're right, it's like one is taking a tree down and then some of those that's, well I'll be bad that mulch that's colored. I'm like, oh my god, yeah. Like what's in that that scares me, you know? Then going into the water table.

2 (22m 34s):
But we've got a lot of birders in the community. Probably the star of that show would be gift beaten who's literally written the book on Georgia Birds and we see a lot of rare migratory songbirds passing through. We've got Turkey and quail, I'm seeing more and more quail in a lot of our pastures the past couple years. And then reptiles and amphibians just visit the geothermal pond behind motto, you know, behind the motto Liveworks. And it is full every kind of frog. I remember this spring it you, it was hard not to step on frogs cuz so many of them were emerging out of there. And those, those guys are in army to protect us against mosquitoes and flies and roaches and all that stuff. We've got lizards, skis, green and noles, and then a broad array of insect life too.

2 (23m 19s):
Especially the dragon flies around the geothermal pond and Grange Lake are amazing and the pollinator garden across from the hill is just slap full of probably 15, 20 species of pollinators during the summer.

1 (23m 34s):
Amazing. Yeah, I've seen so many beautiful butterflies around, but yeah, we should definitely have gif on and do an interview with him. The frogs are funny because our house, and I think it depends on where you live, but our neighbors have a, I guess just a little pond in their backyard. Those frogs, whatever certain times of the year, like we've had a decibel meter out are so loud that we almost have to like turn on a noise machine to brown them out certain nights. And I've had people ask me, what does that sound? And I'm like, there's frogs. But again, so many of us haven't grown up in nature and or we've been disconnected from it. So we don't even know what the sound of a full frog is. So I think that's funny.

1 (24m 14s):
Now there's also, I guess we would call them predators out there like gray foxes and coyotes. Tell us a little about those. I feel like people also maybe even saw some bobcats on the trails. It's like, are they supposed to be here? What's going on? Are those native or

2 (24m 29s):
Some are. So the red foxes and the gray foxes are native predators. They eat a lot of rodents, predominantly rodents. We do have bobcats, I've gotten them on camera, I've seen them in person and they're really beautiful, very elusive, very secretive and quiet. They do everything they can to not be seen. And then coyotes is a growing issue similar to the armadillos. They're a new import from further west. They did not used to be in the east. Some people think that they're filling in the niche that was left behind by red wolves in our area. But that's just not the case. Coyotes do not attack deer or large animals or people like some people may say they also foxes eat a lot of rodents.

2 (25m 15s):
And I'm a big cat lover. I've got seven personal kits. So I'm worried about the outdoor cats. I only have one that ventures outdoors. But in Sarah b you see 'em all over the place. A lot of people have indoor outdoor cats and there's been studies that a large portion of coyote's diet consists of outdoor cats, which is

1 (25m 35s):
Terrible. Oh lord. Well I guess they're getting back cuz all the cats are eating the songbirds.

2 (25m 40s):
Oh, you're right. I didn't that that's the truth. That's the, that's why I keep most of mine. But they really danger to, they aren't gonna hurt any kids or any large animals. They're just out there and you might hear 'em at night, it sounds really crazy when a bunch of 'em start yapping together. And the Georgia DNR has opened coyote season year round. So in an effort to reduce the numbers in our state because there is a danger of over population since they're not a native species.

1 (26m 11s):
Well, and that's an actually an interesting thing maybe to touch on. I feel like again, as somebody who didn't grow up in the country, didn't really understand that the push and pull of it is deer, right? That we do go out and take down the population of deer a couple times a year. And I think we're coming up on that season right now. But talk about that a little bit because I think everybody's like, Oh my god, you're taking out Bambi. Right? And it really is important to call the herd. But talk a little bit about why

2 (26m 40s):
This is a very sensitive issue and understandably, right, I'm an animal lover too. People don't like the idea of the death of an animal. But the truth of the matter is that whitetail deer don't have any natural predators right now other than human hunters and the four-wheel threat vehicles. And if gonna end up in somebody's freezer feeding their family or somewhere out in the woods feeding vultures, they're gonna end up hitting somebody's car and they're gonna end up on the side of the road. And you can almost see it just about every morning somewhere in Chattahoochee Hills. I bet it's safe to say every morning in Chattahoochee Hills there's a number of deer that have made that untimely demise in that way.

2 (27m 23s):
And it's unfortunate, it's dangerous for people. It's a horrible passing for the deer. So we do institute managed hunting in Cby, that's residents and employees participate in, It's very structured. We have a couple chat hills policemen that participate. I'm in direct communication with our department of natural resources law enforcement officer. And so we do, we, we have a third party biologist that provides us guidance along the way and does an annual census. So we do it as responsibly and as safely as possible. We don't allow gun hunting just for obvious reasons. So it's really worked out quite well. We're seeing reduction of deer brows in people's landscapes.

2 (28m 5s):
We're seeing reduction of deer on the side of the road over time. I would like to think, and as we continue to learn through the monitoring, maybe we'll end up being a model for other communities that have this issue. Because if you go further towards metro Atlanta and even right smack dab in the middle of Atlanta, it becomes a real issue where you can't even hardly grow anything. And the animals themselves begin to become malnourished because they're so overpopulated. And that's when you see things like chronic wasting disease pop up, which thankfully with no reports of that in our area, but if we allow the population to grow to a certain point, then it's inevitable.

1 (28m 42s):
Yeah. And I think that's something that because they don't have any natural predators, we as a country have killed off those predators. And then we're also for better or worse encroaching on their land. But there's so many of them now that your point, we don't want them to starve. You know, it's a weird thing and I know that you guys are really good about trying to figure out what do you then do with that beat? So I think you're managing it really, really thoughtfully. And again, as somebody who grew up in California, never understood any of that and honestly was worried about it, I have a very much better understanding and appreciation of why. And I think, again, it's education, it's talking to people, it's getting in there and having that conversation face to face.

1 (29m 24s):
I know we maybe haven't talked about snakes a lot, but as we're getting towards Halloween, maybe we need the little creepy crawlies. Most of the snakes are good snakes, but again, we as a species probably even probably are in our, somewhere in our genetics, see a snake. And not just fear there, it's because some are dangerous. We probably have it somewhere inside of us that we should be cautious around them. But the majority of the snakes that are around are good snakes. Let's talk about snakes for a minute.

2 (29m 52s):
I think you're right. I think there is an ingrained instinctual fear of snakes for most people. I personally, I have captive pet snakes. I've always, they're like my favorite animals. It's rare to see venomous snakes around seren B. I've been here for five years and I've only seen one venomous snake. And it's actually a funny story. I saved it because the crew found it instinctually. They drew up the shovel, they were ready to chop it up. I stopped them and I was able to capture it safely and relocate it further into the woods. But not without a resident actually witnessing it. It was pretty funny. He was, he got to see that literally it was rearing its bangs because the way I was holding it behind the head, but I safely released him.

2 (30m 36s):
I'm a firm believer and karma mentality where I don't wanna hurt anything that I don't have to. And they do play a role in the ecosystem and they do everything. They can avoid human contact. Most of the time if someone's getting bit by a snake, it's because they stepped on it. The good thing about rattlesnakes, which are native to our area, although I haven't seen them, timber rattlers, is they give you a warning, right? They give you a heads up that in audible noise to stay away and make it easier to avoid that interaction. But there's really only three species. The timber Rattler, the copperhead, which is the one that I saw down there below motto, kind of near the waterfall. And then coral snakes, which are very elusive and almost rare.

2 (31m 17s):
And it's even rare for them to bite somebody because they've got rear fangs instead of the front facing fangs. Their poisonous fangs are in the back of their mouth. But most of the snake sightings are rat snakes. And they're great for keeping the road and population down around our barns and our residences and nine times outta 10, if I see one in the road, I can safely pick it up and move it without it so much as biting me or doing anything. They, they're really calm most of the time.

1 (31m 44s):
Yeah, I feel like most of the kids here have a better appreciation and understanding having grown up here rather than some of the adults. Again, I'll speak for myself that are much more comfortable picking up a frog, picking up a snake. They totally understand sort of how everything fits together. Steve, when your girls were growing up here, now obviously they're women with their own children. Did you find that some were more open to the animals and the snakes and the things or, or even were more into the critters than others outta your girls? Steve?

3 (32m 17s):
The girls seemed fine with any of the animals and critters we found. That's part of about educating kids, not to be afraid. We had a big black snake that would get into the chicken nest. And when we went to collect eggs, sometimes if you reached in without looking, you might encounter a steak. So everybody learned to look in the nest before you reached in to get, get an egg because the snakes loved. I loved to curl up in there and of course they would fe on a fresh hand and we did school trips. I remember one time I grabbed a snake to show the kids and of course I didn't have him far under his neck and he reached around and bit me, but you know, it was a black snake, so there was no problem.

3 (32m 58s):
But there I had the fang marks on my arm for a while. Kids also, that was pretty, pretty funny. They weren't scared. So I think it's a big thing about educating kids about all the animals that are out there and where you need to be cautious. And that there are friends in most cases. It's part of the whole biophilic structure of how nature needs to work. And as Thomas has said, those that can be then less and dangerous. They're more afraid of us than we are then generally. So why do we make noises? They're gonna get the heck outta the way.

1 (33m 25s):
I think that's a great point that I do think that most of the animals, yeah, they're gonna get outta the way. They don't want anything to do with us. We're the problem. Thomas, is there anything that I haven't covered as we're sort of wrapping up here that you wanna share or want people to know?

3 (33m 41s):
One of things that people should know is Thomas is a guy who lives off the land more than anyone. I think I know. And man, if we ever have a natural disaster, I wanna make sure that Thomas is in my backyard somewhere cause he knows how to survive.

1 (33m 58s):
All right, I

3 (33m 60s):
Like it. Thomas, expand on that. Cause I know it's very rare that you go to the grocery store to buy protein or a lot of things. I mean, between what you grow and what you hunt.

2 (34m 11s):
That's right. I, to me it sounds cheesy, but it's almost spiritual to me. My, my connection to the woods, it's, it's not something that I just like to do. It's something that I have to do. It's regenerative to me. It's a requirement for me to just reset my mind and kinda let a lot of just the static kind of go and be a part of, of nature, which, whether we wanna be or not the truth, it's a fact and, and I love learning what kind of mushrooms are edible and I find droves of them around c and b. I love teaching residents which ones are safe to eat so they can incorporate them into their cooking. I love foraging edible plants. And we do walks around a couple times a year with Alfie to help educate folks about foraging and edible plants.

2 (34m 57s):
And then like you mentioned, the managed hunt. I literally eat deer meat at least two to three times a week. That's myself and my girlfriend. That's pretty much the only protein. We don't like buying meat from the store because we don't like supporting commercial agriculture. It's if I'm gonna eat meat, I want that animal to have lived as natural and as happy and of a life as possible. And to me that means getting it myself from the forest. So I hope people understand that. And they don't think that it's in any way a malicious or it's like a hobby or something. It's hunting to me is part of living, you know? And that's how I feed myself and my family.

3 (35m 36s):
As you know, Thomas loves animals as much as anyone I know. And yet he also is a great hunter and really gives honor to that animal of having lived. But also that that's part of the biophilic ce that you also have to call the animals from the natural porch. And so I think more people understood that cycle and that's hopefully we can help folks understand.

1 (36m 0s):
Yeah, I do. I think that is really important and that's been a really surprising aspect of living here is learning all about that. Who knew that a community was gonna teach me about nature. Thomas, the last thing we always ask everybody is, if you have a new visitor coming to therapy, what would you recommend they do or something that they just can't miss?

2 (36m 21s):
I think as many great things are on our streets as far as shops and restaurants and everything, I think that my number one recommendation would be to step out onto the trail system. You can take as short of a hike as you want or as long as you want, and still see something beautiful and still interact with wildlife. It can be as short as motto to the waterfall, or it can be as long as what we call the Indian Rock Trail where you walk along Cedar Creek and past a Mississippian time period. Indian Mound that's that's on that side of the property. And a stone carved basin that was used for grinding acorns and Cedar Shoals is over there too. It's just a beautiful bubbling brook. And so that's a great, I guess it's probably less than two mile hike that folks can take if they come visit Cby.

1 (37m 8s):
Yeah, it's stunning out there. Thomas, thank you so much. It's really been fun talking to you. I mean, I get to work with you every day, but I think I learned a lot more during this interview, so I guess we'll see you on the trail.

2 (37m 18s):
Absolutely. Thank you, Monica. It's been a pleasure.

3 (37m 21s):
Thanks Thomas. We appreciate all you do for Jeremy b.

2 (37m 25s):
Thank you, Steve.