Serenbe Stories

Col. Mark Mykleby: How Sustainable Solutions Drive Economic Growth

February 24, 2020 Serenbe / Col. Mark "Puck" Mykleby Season 2 Episode 5
Serenbe Stories
Col. Mark Mykleby: How Sustainable Solutions Drive Economic Growth
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

You might not see the connection between biophilic design and national security, but today's guest outlines how communities like Serenbe are imperative in our global defense strategy. We're excited for you to hear Monica Olsen and Steve Nygren's conversation with Colonel Mark "Puck" Mykleby.

Puck talks about meeting Phyllis Bleiweis and coming to Serenbe, where he bonded with Steve Nygren over biophilia and pushed for the establishment of the Biophilic Institute. Puck also talks about the economics of sustainability and how his company, Long Haul Capital Group, is putting dollars toward propelling walkable communities. As he says, our smart growth at home can become our smart power abroad.

Definitions, People + Organizations Mentioned

Serenbe Fellows

Phyllis Bleiweis

Congress for New Urbanism 

Special Operations Command at the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Admiral Michael Glenn Mullen 

Captain Wayne Porter - The National Strategic Narrative

Congresswoman Jane Harman 

National Security Act of 1947 

Department of Defense

Central Intelligence Agency

George Frost Kennan

Biophilic Institute

Alexis de Tocqueville 

The New Grand Strategy

Charles Darwin's Survival of the Fittess

The New America Foundation 

Case Western Reserve University 

The New Grand Strategy 

Adam Smith

Long Haul Capital Group

Oregon Museum of Science & Industry 

Water in Flint, Michigan

Rodale Institute's SE Research Center

Children & Nature Network

David W. Orr

Mayor Bill Peduto 

Greta Thunberg TIME's Person of the Year 2019

Monica Olsen (1s):
Hey guys, it's Monica here. I wanted to tell you about a new podcast that I've started with my very good friend, Jennifer Walsh called Biophilic Solutions. Our last season of Serenbe Stories, Building a Biophilic Movement, was so popular that we decided to dedicate an entire podcast to it. Every other week Jennifer and I will sit down with leaders in the growing field of biophilia. We'll talk about local and global solutions to help nurture the living, social, and economic systems that we all need to sustain future generations. More often than not, nature has the answers. You can find Biophilic Solutions on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and follow us today so you don't miss an episode.

Monica Olsen (41s):
All right, now let's get back to Serenbe Stories. Serenbe is a place where people live, work, learn, and play in celebration of life's beauty. And we're here to share the stories that connect residents and guests to each other, and to nature. This is Serenbe Stories.

Monica Olsen (1m 23s):
You might not see the connection between biophilic design and national security, but today's guest outlines how communities like Serenbe are imperative in our global defense strategy. I'm excited for you to hear our conversation with Colonel Mark "Puck" Mykleby. Puck talks about how he bonded with Steve over biophilia every morning at coffee while he was a fellow at Serenbe, how he was a catalyst for establishing the Biophilic Institute, and Puck also talks about the economics of sustainability and specifically how his consultancy is taking action to create more walkable communities. As Puck says, our smart growth at home can become our smart power abroad. But first Serenbe Stories is brought to you by The Inn at Serenbe.

Monica Olsen (2m 3s):
The Inn is nestled in the rolling countryside at bucolic Serenbe where guests can walk on the 15 miles of trails through preserved forest land, the wildflower meadow, and the animal village. You can relax by the pool, hot tub, or in rocking chairs on the wraparound porch, play on the croquet lawn, swings, and in-ground trampolines.  Connect with nature and each other all while staying in luxurious rooms on The Inn grounds or within the community of Serenbe. Book your stay today at serenbeinn.com.

Monica Olsen (2m 29s):
How are you today, Steve?

Steve Nygren (2m 31s):
I'm good. Looking forward to our interview discussion today.

Monica Olsen (2m 35s):
I know. Today, Steve and I are talking to a very important figure in our lives. Part of the national security and sustainability conversation. I want to welcome Puck Mykleby to Serenbe Stories via phone. This is our first phone interview. Puck, are you there?

Puch Mykleby (2m 51s):
I'm here. Hey everybody.

Monica Olsen (2m 52s):
Am I saying your name correctly, your last name correctly, Puck?

Puck Mykleby (2m 56s):
It's Mykleby but call me anything you want.

Monica Olsen (2m 59s):
Ok fabulous. Puck Mykleby well, Puck has quite a story that we're going to hear from him today. He's the co-founder of the Long Haul Capital Group, which catalyzes, supports, and propels walkable, sustainable communities. He also talks about that as the future, not only for the United States, but the world. Puck is also a graduate of the Naval academy. He has a master's degree in both military studies and national security studies. And during his time in the Marine Corps, he served as the special strategic assistant to the chairman in the office of the joint chiefs of staff, quite a mouthful Puck. Now, when he was there, he developed the national strategic narrative that said sustainability is what's needed to really become the country's national focus if we're going to face the challenges of the 21st century.

Monica Olsen (3m 45s):
But Puck, my first question that I ask everybody is how did you come into our world? How did you first meet Steve and Serenbe?

Puck Mykleby (3m 55s):
By your world are you talking Serenbe? Are you talking about sustainability or what?

Monica Olsen (4m 1s):
That's a great question. I'm specifically talking about Serenbe. How did you first come to us? I know you were a fellow back in what, Steve, 2012?

Puck Mykleby (4m 12s):
2012.

Monica Olsen (4m 13s):
Okay, great. Was that your first introduction to Serenbe or how did that whole thing come together?

Puck Mykleby (4m 19s):
It was, it was definitely my first introduction to Serenbe. And we can thank the fighting Phyllis Bleiweis for making that connection. I had met Phyllis, I believe it was at CNU 18 when it wasn't Atlanta. I believe that's where I first met her. And with Phyllis over a martini, I'm sure it was just started chatting. And next thing I know she had invited me to come to Serenbe.

Monica Olsen (4m 49s):
Right. And CNU was the Congress for the new urbanism, is that correct?

Puck Mykleby (4m 54s):
That is correct. That is correct. And I was just speaking there based on the work that I had done by this time I was retired from the Marine Corps, but it was based on the work that I had done at special operations command then at, for the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. And Phyllis just thought it would be a good idea for me to come and visit Serenbe and talk to the folks there. And that's where I met Steve.

Steve Nygren (5m 19s):
And so Phyllis was chairing our fellows program to where we invite interesting people who are writing a book or in places, different places in their career to spend some downtime just hanging out here.

Monica Olsen (5m 34s):
Right. And did you do a talk or did you meet people while you were here Puck? What was your interaction with the residents?

Puck Mykleby (5m 40s):
Yeah, it was all of the above. Gave I think just one presentation about the work that I had done at, for Admiral Mullen, when he was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff around a document that me and a Navy captain- I was a Marine Colonel at the time when I was in the Pentagon- but the Navy captain Wayne Porter had written called the national strategic narrative. That bottom line said that sustainability needs to become our grand strategic national imperative if we're going to face the challenges now the challenges of 21st century, but able to grab onto the opportunities, present in the world and get back to a place of leading from a position of opportunity and not having such a, what I would say, a masochistically nostalgic focus on threat and risk.

Puck Mykleby (6m 26s):
Interesting.

Steve Nygren (6m 27s):
And Puck it's always interesting to hear you tell the story on the day you got the call to show up at the Pentagon for this work. Share shared the, the short version of that.

Puck Mykleby (6m 39s):
Sure. I was actually working on strategy for special operation, special operations command of global strategy. This was 2007 to 2009. We just took a fundamentally different way of approaching strategy rather than a really linear approach. We took a more systems-based approach and the things that we focused on who were really came out of some of the command, the commander of special operations command at the time was a Navy four-star Navy Admiral named Eric Olson. And the guidance that he gave my team was to figure out how to get out in front of the sound of the guns.

Puck Mykleby (7m 21s):
I just want to say that again, because it's really important, not only in terms of an insight, but also for me personally and professionally, but get out in front of the sound of the guns. In other words, try to figure out how special operations forces could go out and shape the environment so we wouldn't have to go fight. And that was really interesting. And so that led us in a different direction. Not only to look at the world more from a systems based view and not from a control and power kind of view, but more as a participant in, in an ecosystem. And we started looking at things like urban design, regenerative agriculture, female health and education. Anything that we thought would be really catalytic at the tactical level that would have large systemic and strategic catalytic impact. And Admiral Mullen in 2008, who was a new chairman of the joint chiefs of staff,

Puck Mykleby (8m 14s):
He came down to special operations command. We gave him a little dog and pony show, a little briefing on what we were doing and he liked it. And then all of a sudden this guy named Wayne Porter, Navy captain which had long time been on Admiral Mullen's personal staff, really brilliant guy. He gave me a call and just said, Hey, Admiral Mullen told me to contact you. And so I talked to Wayne a bit, next thing I know in July of 2009, I got a call saying get, you know, get your butt up to the Pentagon because- this is coming from Wayne- you and I are gonna figure out a new grand strategy for the country. And so next I know I was out of my sea bag and I was talking to the Pentagon, a place I was really good at avoiding.

Puck Mykleby (8m 55s):
And, but there I was and it was a, I gotta say it was, it was other than commanding Marines, it was one of the best experiences of my life, just because Admiral Mullen is just such an incredible guy, just incredible guy. So it was a real honor to work for him, especially on a project that big.

Steve Nygren (9m 11s):
And so that was that two years as I remember that you were at the Pentagon working on this and then file the report.

Puck Mykleby (9m 19s):
Yeah, it was. It was only supposed to be two months and ended up being two years. So there you go. But yeah, I got there in July of '09 and a month later, we had written a national strategic narrative. So in August of '09 I thought my job was done. And, but given what we were saying, that it really wasn't in the realm of the military, quite frankly, it wasn't the job of the joint chiefs of staff really to dictate. And it's not just, you know, this really great document called the constitution, the military, it doesn't dictate domestic policy. It doesn't dictate any policy as a matter of fact, but we were really trying to make a, a call that we really had it wrong that this focus on threat and risk and really wasn't the direction our country needed to go, that we needed to get back to being a land of opportunity.

Puck Mykleby (10m 16s):
And that's, we saw sustainability both from a national security perspective, but also from an economics and I would say a prosperity perspective that's the direction we needed to go. New systems, food, water, energy, built environment, education, industry, to really take on the big challenges that we face, whether they're climate change, whether they're social dysfunction, issues of equity and quite frankly, fiscal and economic issues. We really needed to start moving in a different direction. And, but given the fact that it was coming out of the office of the chairman of joint chiefs of staff, there were a lot of political sensitivities there. So Admiral Mullen really liked what he saw, what we were talking about, but there was a certain hesitance to, to proclaim it, given that that was really the responsibility of our civilian political leadership to come up with those kinds of ideas and direct action.

Puck Mykleby (11m 6s):
So two months turned into two years of trying to get a Washington DC to do something different.

Steve Nygren (11m 14s):
And then in summary, did you make a recommendation to Congress?

Puck Mykleby (11m 18s):
We never made a formal recommendation to Congress. In fact, you know, we weren't allowed to go talk to any political folks until just after the new year, 2011. And Admiral Mullen sent us over to see Congresswoman Jane Harman, who was a blue dog, Democrat out of California and the longtime friend of Admiral Mullen. And so he, he sent us over to talk to her. We were supposed to have 15 minutes with Congresswoman Harman and that turned into a two hour conversation and she loved what she saw. She loved what she read and she was pretty fired up. Unfortunately, she was retiring from Congress, but when she got over to head the Woodrow Wilson center in DC, she took our narrative and she launched it into the public domain from there with Tom Friedman emceeing it and had a gallery of folks debating the merits of the paper that we had written.

Steve Nygren (12m 14s):
What am I remembering about the national defense act of 1947 that you all said needed to be adjusted? Or am I thinking of something else?

Puck Mykleby (12m 26s):
No, I know you are. I mean, NSA for national security act in 1947 was basically our recognizing that the grand strategic challenge facing our nation was the rise of communism, the Soviet union. And so we fundamentally restructured, particularly our national security apparatus to take on that challenge. So that's where the actual department of defense was established. CIA was established, all the instruments that we use to take on the Soviet union under George Kennan's concept of containment that he put forth in 1946. So he had a grand strategic concept of containment, and then we created a national strategic construct under NSA 47 to take on that challenge.

Puck Mykleby (13m 13s):
And there were subsequent modifications to, to the national security act over time. But what we found out after the Soviet union collapsed, our country never did a reset. We never said, okay, what's the next thing. I mean, you know, history moves forward, our interests move forward, and we just kind of accepted the, that old cold war construct that was basically leverage force and power to pursue our interests, to pursue our national interests or what we call prosperity and security. It no longer fit the world that we face anymore, but you still, we kept, we keep, we kept doubling down and I would say, we still are doubling down. If you just look at the recent budget, we're almost up to, you know, we're over three quarters of a trillion dollars, we're all in on just our defense budget, meanwhile, we're cutting things like the EPA, we're cutting things like even our state department, our funding to our diplomats, and our foreign aid. Education.

Puck Mykleby (14m 9s):
It's these are the challenges that we face in 21st century are no longer just military. There are security challenges, I'm a Marine all day long. And I mean, there are people out there that need to get headbutted into submission, but that can't be our, our go-to position in the world. The world is screaming for leadership to try to figure our way forward so that the human beings can thrive as well as our planet can continue to flourish. So that's always our perspective. It still is my perspective, and this nation needs a big wake up call, particularly what's going on in Washington DC today. It's only gotten worse. It hasn't gotten better. So my time in Washington, some 10 years ago.

Steve Nygren (14m 52s):
So Monica, you can imagine when Phyllis said, there's this interesting retired Marine that you should have coffee with. I said, sure, Phyllis, whatever you say, but after the first coffee, I could hardly wait for more. And so Puck and I had coffee almost every morning during his stay here. And when, as Puck learned about Serenbe is when he said, what you're doing here is literally an act of national defense. And as I shared many of the things that we wanted to do, and one of it was to create a campus for university students from really around the world to come for a semester away in environmental planning.

Steve Nygren (15m 34s):
And this would be part of a, of an entire movement to also educate or create a think tank for educators and our urban planners in the United States. I was calling this at the time the working title was the green school or something like that. But because of Puck's encouragement, we launched the Biophilic Institute. That really wasn't the name at the moment we, we worked on the name, but it was Puck's encouragement to do this. And Puck said, if you'll do it, I will be the vice chair. And through these years, Puck has remained the vice chair of the Biophilic Institute as we move forward to actually make some of these things happen.

Monica Olsen (16m 17s):
No, that's incredible Puck. And did you have any idea when you came here that that would, this would be sort of this long-term relationship that you had?

Puck Mykleby (16m 25s):
No, absolutely not. I mean, I just thought this was, you know, okay another speaking gig, I mean, but who doesn't love Phyllis, you know? So as Steve said, you do anything just because she, she tells you to do it, you know, but to me the most beyond just meeting the great folks that are residents at Serenbe, the fact of the matter is that when you can physically see, touch, taste, what Serenbe is about, you know, it's that really visceral connection to something that is special. But to think that it's just not, it doesn't have to be just Serenbe, that this is a pattern of design.

Puck Mykleby (17m 13s):
This is a pattern of living. It's a pattern of community. That there is zero reason why any community can't take those principles and apply them. And that's what really drew me is that the scalability of the design logic, it tracked directly to what we're trying to say in the national strategic narrative when I was at the Pentagon. Because the fact of the matter is what we're talking about in terms of a macro global impact that the United States could have is that our, maybe this isn't the best, most current language, I really don't care. It's just that our smart growth at home can become our smart power abroad because these conditions of community, these conditions of sustainability, these conditions of just civic connection and civic responsibility are, are global in nature.

Puck Mykleby (18m 1s):
You can have your own country, or I'm a firm believer in, you know, you need to be proud of your nation, but we still share the same planet. And we still have the same issues and we still have the same problems, but we still have the same opportunities. And if we don't grab them, we don't design, we don't grab onto them, we recognize them with a clear, you know, a vision towards the future and what kind of life and world we want our kids  and our grandkids to live in, if we don't act upon it now, all current trend lines show that we are really, we are being future-eaters. We are consuming our kids' future and our grandchildren's future just simply because we won't do the work to shape their world.

Puck Mykleby (18m 42s):
And that, and I hate to, I'm sorry, I'm going off on a rant on this, but this was important. The fact that Serenbe exists, that you could take these basic design principles and create it and make it real and see the clear manifestation of it, just in the way that citizens treat each other and how engaged they are, that's a really powerful, powerful message that our country used to have. I mean, Tocqueville wrote about it, Democracy in America, those ideas and those designs are not lost. Serenbe manifested that in real form today in 2019. And it's something we ought to be grabbing onto and scaling and propagating not only across the country, but across the world.

Monica Olsen (19m 24s):
No, I mean, obviously we, I mean, I thank you for those kind of words. And like, we really obviously really agree with you. And I think we talk about all, all the time, how do we connect people with each other and nature? And I think you've articulated that in a really beautiful way. I know that once that all of the research that you did and then, you know, all the work that you presented to the Admiral and then to Jane Harman, you were then once it was declassified, I believe you were able to turn it into the book that I mentioned earlier, The New Grand Strategy. Can you talk a little bit about that? And then, you know, really maybe what you feel like the impact that has had over the past 10 ish years. And I think maybe you were at a think tank for a minute too.

Monica Olsen (20m 6s):
Like, can you talk a little bit about that and where you felt like you got some traction and where is there opportunity for all of us to think about continuing to push that message forward?

Puck Mykleby (20m 16s):
Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, what we did for Mullen and matter of fact, all the work that I did at special ops current command, none of it was classified. None of it was, because these are common conditions, that I think was part of the strength of it. It wasn't, you know, you know, a secret squirrel kind of thing it was just, you know, in my mind it was common sense. It's basic, God-given organic design, whatever the cool word is now, integrative design or biophilic design, whatever. It's just basic common sense. I mean, how systems are supposed to put together, I mean how Darwin wrote about it at length, you know.

Puck Mykleby (20m 57s):
You know, it's amazing that Darwin, it wasn't about survival of the fittest. It was about if you remember, he wrote about a spring bed and every organism in that spring bed had a role to play to make that a vibrant biosphere. And that, that was the logic that we were using is how can we be the best contributor to this system that we, that we belong in that we happen to be in?

Steve Nygren (21m 25s):
Did the Woodrow Wilson Institute publish that and is that still available online? Your actual paper?

Puck Mykleby (21m 30s):
Yeah, it's still online. If you just Google national strategic narrative, it'll take you right to the Woodrow Wilson center website and the documents there. I mean, the documents itself that we wrote was purposely not prescriptive in nature. I mean, it's not a strategy per se. It was just trying to, again, catalyze action in DC, and the reason why we weren't prescriptives because we were very aware and clear-eyed by the fact that we were in the military, particularly the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff that, you know, we weren't going to cross the lines of the constitution and start trying to dictate policy or, or strategy when it was so heavily focused on our domestic condition and our domestic requirements.

Puck Mykleby (22m 18s):
And so this was truly the realm of civilian leadership. I will say, try to get to answering the, I think it was the basic question is that, you know, we tried really hard to get the civilian leadership to grab it. Now, the principals at the time were, obviously president Obama, secretary Clinton, secretary Gates, and Admiral Mullen, all of them had a common worldview and dare I say it, they, they actually liked each other. They all got to hear about the principles that we were pushing. They liked it, and yet we still couldn't get anything done. And that's not a dig on them. That's just the nature of our Washington political environment. I got a immensely frustrated,

Puck Mykleby (22m 60s):
So I retired. I just said, you know, this is too big of an idea to let it languish in DC and really set a sights on, okay, how could the private sector be the catalyst for these principles? How could the private sector lead and have, you know, create the parade so that the government can jump in front of it? You know? And so that's what I did. So after I retired went to New America Foundation for a couple of years, they were picked up by the business school at Case Western Reserve University to develop these ideas. And that's when we wrote the book where we really examined the economics of sustainability and, you know, the economics, anything, you know, ironclad, no nothing is, but the demand and the supply, I mean all these basic Adam Smith principles.

Puck Mykleby (23m 53s):
They're all in play for us right now. And we have plenty of capital to juice that. It's just that right now we've got really, antiquated policy is what I would say, the most significant at least in my mind is that we still are incentivizing drive til you qualify suburban sprawl growth. It's amazing, even though all the data is in, the fiscal data is in on how that's unsustainable and not to mention the environmentally it's unsustainable and social dislocation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So that's why even at Case Western, you know, going from the military where you're very action oriented, then to a think tank, which was nice, don't get me wrong. It was a great opportunity.

Puck Mykleby (24m 33s):
Then to go into the academic world, which was nice. Don't get me wrong. But none of them are action oriented environments. And I don't really want to be part of a think tank, I want to be part of a do tank. And that's why me and my business partner for, for a long time, since 2010, Patrick Doherty, we decided to stand up Long Haul Capital Group as a way to bring capital to not only catalyze, but support and propel more walkable, sustainable communities, because we see that as the future, not as United States, but around the world.

Monica Olsen (25m 4s):
Tell me a little bit about, cause that's, I think that's a really interesting point that I think, well, I'll speak for myself, but I think many of us feel like the government is not the answer, and so where can we turn for action and doing? And so tell us a little bit more about Long Haul Capital. Like what kind of success or what kind of projects have you been proud of there?

Puck Mykleby (25m 25s):
Yeah, I mean, we, again, Long Haul Capital, we created that so that we could capitalize walkable communities. And as we see that there are three basic components to making that happen. Number one is in the mortgage side of the house is right now, you know, 50% of the investment goes into about 1% of the land mass in the United States that's considered walkable. That's an enormous, and so there's an enormous price premium on that walkability. And so we're cracking the code on the mortgage side of it to open up the, not only open up the credit box, all of a sudden it also incentivize folks to start buying homes in more walkable places, which, oh, by the way, according to the national association of realtors 60% of Americans seek the attributes of walkability in the next housing purchase.

Puck Mykleby (26m 9s):
And again, you only 1-2% of the land mass is walkable. That's kind of weird. So there's a big disconnect between supply and demand. The second thing is how do you create more walkable communities? Well we look at that not only from a need to reduce our carbon emissions and reduce the number of cars on the road and, you know, burning fossil fuels, but also because they will catalyze those communities. So we also invest in rails, particularly street car and light rail systems and where there's a transit stop, you know, a quarter mile radius around that is an opportunity to create more walkable, dense communities. And then the third thing is once those things are being created, you have to be able to support them with the types of infrastructure that makes sense, mostly district level infrastructure,

Puck Mykleby (26m 51s):
Where you're talking about energy, water, connectivity systems, both in last mile mobility, but also digital connectivity systems. So investing in those things that allow those walkable communities to thrive in a 21st century context. And so that, those three basic components are, are what we've built our, our business model around. And so we're working on several different projects we can get, we can or not get into those, but I mean, we're, we're cutting our teeth in Portland, Oregon museum of science and industry. We're looking to try to get a streetcar system up and running and in Cleveland and then sort of district structure thing is what we're really mostly focused on right now is cracking the code in revitalizing the mortgage industry, particularly using a FinTech solution that is focused on walkability.

Puck Mykleby (27m 44s):
And so that's what we're doing right now and really create, provide transparency, consistency, most importantly, directing the volume of money that goes into the mortgage industry to really have a strategic impact on the way we live our lives in the United States and leveraging the mortgage industry to do that.

Monica Olsen (28m 5s):
That's interesting, but all with the vision of the urban walkable environment, which makes so much sense. I have no idea the statistics are kind of wild, that supply and demand is so off.

Puck Mykleby (28m 15s):
Yeah. And so we're really keeping an old system on life support with really bad fiscal and monetary policy. It's crazy. It really is. The cool thing is that a place like Serenbe cracks the code, not in a theoretical sense, but in a real physical sense. And I'd also throw in, one of the things that Steve is probably going to tell me to shut up about, that I think one of the most fascinating things about Serenbe is soil reclamation. As boring as that is, I mean, that is some people it's boring, to me it gets me all lathered up. I mean, it's just, talk about something, if you could take that science of soil reclamation, you start applying that to some of the more distressed urban and urban environments across country,

Puck Mykleby (28m 59s):
And yeah I'm thinking about Cleveland, I'm thinking about places like Detroit, just think about what a game changer that would be in terms of wellness, in terms of solving food desert issues, with just having kids grow up with a fair shot without having to deal with lead in the soil, et cetera. And just as a, a little factoid, you know, a lot of focus on Flint and the water lead content in the water in Flint, Michigan. If you, and it's not a direct analogy, but you know, work with me here, but if you can do an equivalent comparison water, you know, and then the soil of Cleveland, the soil of Cleveland has three times more lead in it on a comparative basis. Just the soil in the urban environment in Cleveland.

Puck Mykleby (29m 41s):
And then just imagine what that's doing to kids. Just imagine what that's doing to, to, to wellness, not just public health, but well, long-term wellness of the various community, underserved communities here. I mean, that's a pretty simple thing that you could do is just start treating the soil. And guess what? Urban kids getting connected to mother earth through dirt is probably a really cool thing to do. That's my opinion.

Steve Nygren (30m 6s):
I have been listening and Rodale Institute has announced now that they're going to put their Southeastern research center here. And as you know, they've been the leaders in soil and organic foods. So we're continuing to, to listen to you and, and put into practice demonstration areas.

Puck Mykleby (30m 25s):
And that's what I love about Serenbe. It's not about let's talk about it, seeing what, what could possibly happen. It's just, okay, this is a good idea. Let's go do that. That's what makes Serenbe special.

Steve Nygren (30m 34s):
And then connecting that I just got back from a weekend with children and nature network and was another friend of yours David Orr.

Puck Mykleby (30m 42s):
Great American.

Steve Nygren (30m 43s):
Yeah. Have you seen the galleys for the new book he's doing?

Puck Mykleby (30m 46s):
No, I have not. No, I have not.

Steve Nygren (30m 48s):
A whole nother conversation we'll have.

Monica Olsen (30m 50s):
Yeah, well that one's going, that's coming out in February, so all focused on democracy. And I think one of the quotes from is like, you know, we, we basically can't save the planet if we don't save democracy.

Puck Mykleby (31m 3s):
Yeah. That's a little bit on the front of my brain right now. But as you know, that's what's amazing about David Orr, I don't think the guy, the guy has a better shot at not breathing that he is not write a book. It's amazing how many book that guy can crank out. And it's all great stuff.

Monica Olsen (31m 21s):
Do you see anybody Puck or, and I know, you know, you already said, you know, we're sort of all looking for somebody to shine a light and really speak the truth, right? And I know we're, we're having this really great conversation and Serenbe is a great example and I think your book is a, is a really great place to start thinking about and be more thoughtful, but do you see leaders or places or non-profits, or that are doing the good work or that we should be looking into or following or supporting?

Puck Mykleby (31m 55s):
Yeah. Mayors. Because mayors can't BS their way around problems the way they can in a state capital house how it's been in the national Capitol. You know, mayors actually have to walk the street and look people in the eye and, you know, make hard decisions on priorities and resources that they also see the real ramifications of things that other policy makers can ignore. You know, specifically like climate change and stuff. You know, look at Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh is a great example of what can happen, but just across the board, mayors get it, county council members for the most part, get it.

Puck Mykleby (32m 36s):
And you know what? Ideology is a really convenient thing when you don't have to actually do anything. You know, pragmatic policy that has real impact on people's lives day to day and have that level of accountability, which equates to walking down main street and having someone stop you, you know, and they're there at your actual neighbor. I mean, again, pointing back to what the Tocqueville talked about, you know, the Americans traditionally have not waited around for someone to tell them what to do. They just see a problem set or they see an opportunity and they just get it on, figure it out. And I think at the, at the city, town level with mayors, that's where we see real action.

Puck Mykleby (33m 21s):
I mean, I do believe in the, you know, in the private sector. There are great entrepreneurs out there that are trying to do the right thing, investors that are trying to do the right thing, we just have to figure out how to scale it. And I think the scaling factor would start with maybe at the state level, which you see happening in various states. But at the end of the day, once you start getting to the level of states and at the national level, it's going to have, as Eisenhower said, it's going to require a knowledgeable and informed citizenry to make sure that our instruments of government are acting in a matter of not only commensurate with our values, but are also delivering on our enduring interests to prosperity security. And that, to me, I know, I focused on mayors but

Puck Mykleby (34m 4s):
I just didn't, I haven't mentioned hope in our citizenry that there'll be a wake up call and that it just won't be about the economy stupid because right now we're just on our heroin high in terms of the economy. We've got a big, huge train coming our way, and it's not going to feel good when it hits, but hoping that our citizenry will wake up, have a moral awakening, but also have a functional awakening about what it's going to take. Yeah. It might take some sacrifice, get over in America, you know, suck it up. We've got some work to do. I don't even know if that answered the question, but man, that felt good to say, thank you. It's like a therapy session.

Monica Olsen (34m 45s):
Good. I like it. That, that's what we're here for. No, I think, I think that's a great answer. And I mean, and we talk a lot about, you know, what can you do? And I think there's a lot of fear or apathy or there's like confusion, so I just wanna put my head in the sand. But it is really like each of us has the power to make change. And like, even just back to economics, the pocket book, right. We can make change by how we purchase things, how we eat, where we choose to live. We do have a lot of influence. And so really being considerate about being informed and making thoughtful decisions, I think is a huge part of it. Steve, do you have anything else to add about your relationship with Puck? Or Puck, do you have anything else interesting

Monica Olsen (35m 25s):
You want to tell us that you're working on outside of long haul? You doing another book by chance?

Puck Mykleby (35m 30s):
Oh, me writing another book. Probably never. I won't use my, I won't tell you my analogy. It's not that it was just for me, I'm a, I like to draw cartoons, but yeah, it's always difficult for me to write, but I just keep it, you know, keep thinking and it's important to constantly be perennially curious. And I, one of my biggest reasons or hang ups with writing a book is that it just seems so dang final. You know, granted, you haven't figured everything out yet, so it's hard to write something down when you know that isn't quite right yet. So that was a long winded way to say no, I'm not going to write a book.

Steve Nygren (36m 12s):
Well Puck I know your son is now how old?

Puck Mykleby (36m 16s):
He's 19 and he's a sophomore at NYU Tisch film school.

Monica Olsen (36m 20s):
Oh Wow.

Puck Mykleby (36m 22s):
We're proud of him there. Yeah.

Steve Nygren (36m 24s):
And so it appears that the, the youth, being a little disgusted with our elder generation, are stepping forward in a way that I cannot remember youth doing. I mean, I remember the sixties and it was more individual rights, whether, you know, sexual freedom and various things, but this is a group really looking at the global issues. I guess they've, they've grown up with it. And what are your thoughts on, on that movement and the voices coming forward?

Puck Mykleby (36m 52s):
Yeah. I want to tell them to keep going, they're reminding us what democracy is about. You know, after Parkland, what kids did, you know, in rising up to have their voices heard it was just inspiring to me. Now, some people said, you know, how, how dare they, that those kids lecture us adults? Well, I said, well, you know what? Number one, they're absolutely right. And number two, we need to be lectured. You know, we absolutely need to be lectured. And what better voice? I mean, it's their future. I'm glad that they're voicing their concerns about their future. And the best part about, you know, coming out of such a horrible event, like Parkland was a political awareness of those kids that say, listen, we may not be able to vote now, but we are going to vote. That was a great message to just cut right to the heart of the issue.

Puck Mykleby (37m 52s):
And I loved it. I loved it. Brought tears to my eyes.

Monica Olsen (37m 55s):
They're like, get ready. We're recording this in December of 2018 and so we're going to date it, but you know, Greta is on the cover as the Time person of the year, right? So that's an incredible statement. I was thrilled to see that, I think it was this morning, and that makes me very hopeful that that topic will not to go away.

Steve Nygren (38m 18s):
And hopefully we see numbers in this next election to show that this generation is coming out to vote because we've had a lot of apathy in the youth, once they get the right to vote, hopefully that's going to change to indicate that it is going to be a time of change.

Puck Mykleby (38m 36s):
Absolutely. And if I could just throw one more thing, it's just, you know, we're all, you know, trapped from where we came, but I, I also have, it's not about being in the military, that there's any great, you know, you don't, you do get great insight, but it's not about that the military has the answer to everything, but I'm also very heartened by the fact that we've got a lot of young Americans, men and women that served in, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of them in combat are now getting their political voice and are joining, you know, at any level of government because that perspective of those that are in the military, it's about, first of all, it's about teamwork.

Puck Mykleby (39m 16s):
It's about higher purpose, not about self and it's about service. And so I'm also heartened by the fact that we we've got a generation that really know what it means to serve and what it really means to put everything on the line, to serve in all levels of government. So with these kids that are aware with a generation that's been tested through a time of war and with that perspective, I do think, you know, we're going to be able to turn the corner. I'm hoping we can do it in time to have real effect on, on these big macro global systems.

Puck Mykleby (39m 57s):
But it is something that we should all take heart in and, and be hopeful for.

Steve Nygren (40m 1s):
Puck, it's always inspirational talking with you and it always makes me want to do more and do it faster. So thanks for all the work you're doing and chatting with us today.

Monica Olsen (40m 12s):
Thank you so much. Thanks for your time.

Puck Mykleby (40m 14s):
Thank you. And thank you for Serenbe and for the Biophilic Institute. I mean, it's just, that's inspiring. It's real. And it's inspiring. So thank you. It was great talking to you guys.

Monica Olsen (40m 22s):
Alright. Thanks Puck

Puck Mykleby (40m 24s):
Take care.

Steve Nygren (40m 25s):
Bye now.

Monica Olsen (40m 25s):
Bye.

Puck Mykleby (40m 26s):
Bye-bye.

Monica Olsen (40m 29s):
Thank you for listening to Serenbe Stories. New episodes are available on Mondays. Please rate and review the podcast and make sure to email your questions for Steve Nygren to stories@serenbe.com. You may even get to hear them on the podcast. More details about episodes and guests are available on our website, serenbestories.com.

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