Did you know that when we're in cities, it's hard to relax because we're taking in all the stimuli around us. In contrast, when we're in nature - even with our eyes open - the quiet and peaceful environment allows us to relax, which is imperative for human health and de-stressing.
Today we are talking with Florence Williams, who is a journalist and author, whose most recent book is The Nature Fix: How Nature Makes us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative. She is also contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and a freelance writer for the New York Times, National Geographic, Slate, Mother Jones and numerous other publications.
Her work focuses on the environment, health and science. In this episode we talk about her immersive research that proves the connection between nature and human health. She also shares content from her next book, which was partially written while in residence at Serenbe.
Did you know that when we're in cities, it's hard to relax because we're taking in all the stimuli around us. In contrast, when we're in nature - even with our eyes open - the quiet and peaceful environment allows us to relax, which is imperative for human health and de-stressing.
Today we are talking with Florence Williams, who is a journalist and author, whose most recent book is The Nature Fix: How Nature Makes us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative. She is also contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and a freelance writer for the New York Times, National Geographic, Slate, Mother Jones and numerous other publications.
Her work focuses on the environment, health and science. In this episode we talk about her immersive research that proves the connection between nature and human health. She also shares content from her next book, which was partially written while in residence at Serenbe.
0 (1s):
Hey guys, it's Monica here. I wanted to tell you about a new podcast that I've started with my very good friend, Jennifer Walsh called biophilic solutions. Our last season of ceremony stories, building a biophilic movement was so popular that we decided to dedicate an entire podcast to it every other week. Jennifer and I will sit down with leaders in the growing field of biophilia. We'll talk about local and global solutions to help nurture the living social and economic systems that we all need to sustain future generations more often than not. Nature has the answers. You can find biophilic solutions on apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe and follow us today. So you don't miss an episode.
0 (41s):
All right, now let's get back to ceremony. Stories. Ceremony is a place where the innate connections humans have with nature and all living things is celebrated through work and play. And we're here to tell the stories of those who have been inspired by this biophilic way of life in our community and across the country. This is ceremony stories.
1 (1m 15s):
did you know that when we're in cities, it's hard to relax because we're taking in all the stimuli around us. In contrast, when we're in nature, even with our eyes open, the quiet and peaceful environment allows us to relax, which is so imperative for human health in de-stressing today, we're talking with Florence Williams, a journalist and author whose most recent book is the nature fix how nature makes us happier, healthier, and more creative. She's also a contributing editor outside magazine, a freelance writer for the New York times, national geographic slate, mother Jones, and numerous other publications. Her work focuses on the environment, health and science. And in this episode, we talk about her immersive research that proves the connection between nature and human health.
2 (2m 6s):
She also shares about her next book, which was partially written while in residence. It's Aaron. But first ceremony stories is brought to you by the, in it ceremony. The Inn is nestled in the rolling countryside, a bucolic ceremony where guests can walk on the 15 miles of trails through preserve forest land, the wildflower meadow, and the animal village. You can relax by the pool hot tub or in rocking chairs on the wraparound porch, play on the croquet lawn swings and in-ground trampolines connect with nature and each other all while staying in luxurious rooms on the, in ground or within the community of Sarah. Be book your stay today at <inaudible> dot com.
1 (2m 42s):
All right, I want to welcome everybody back to ceremony stories today. We're very excited. We have Florence Williams with us who is a journalist and writer. Her workers appeared in outside magazine, New York times national geographic. She wrote an interesting book called breaths, a natural and unnatural history that we'll hear a little bit about, but she is best known for her work in a book called the nature fix. So I want to welcome you Florence and we'll welcome Steve back,
3 (3m 14s):
Looking forward to the conversation. Me too. Thanks
2 (3m 16s):
So much for having me on one of the first things we always ask our guests is what is your Seren B story? How did you come into the serum B ecosystem? I felt very fortunate to be invited to biophilia summit, and that was, I guess, a couple of years ago. And then I also was very fortunate to enjoy a few days and one of the artists cabins, because I'm working on a new book and I found it to be a really regenerative and fruitful and peaceful place to write. I guess I was there for almost a week. And I, you know, I walked a couple of times a day on the trails there, which is the perfect antidote to sitting at your desk all day.
2 (3m 60s):
I got some great ideas while I was in the woods down there. And I felt like I really got to benefit, you know, from the birds and the early spring. And it was really a very special, very special week. Yes, the artists and residents cottages. And yet we sort of had brought you in with biophilic and it was perfect because at the time you were writing a new book and I don't know if you're still working on that at all. Well, I definitely want to hear about that in a minute. Tell us a little bit your background. I, I believe that you are pretty much doing a lot of work for outside magazine these days, is that correct? I am. I've worked for them for many years. I'm a contributing editor.
2 (4m 41s):
So I focus a lot on environmental stories and conservation stories and science sort of science and neuroscience. So it's, it's been a great partnership with them. How did you get here writing? Did you go do something you did since high school and college, or was it a pivot? Tell us about sort of how you, how you got here. I was one of those kids who sort of knew what she wanted to do early on, and I knew I wanted to be a writer, I guess in high school, I joined the school paper and I became the editor. And then in college, I, I didn't work for the college paper, but I worked for the college magazine. And I realized that I really liked writing long form, you know, sort of longer stories that, that aren't necessarily pegged to the news of the day, but to sort of, you know, bigger themes.
2 (5m 31s):
And that was kind of the fit for me. I never really looked back after college. I got an internship at an environmental magazine in Colorado called high country news. That was a wonderful experience. And I've pretty much been freelancing for a long time, about 20, 25 years deciding to write books. I mean, you were doing the long form was, was breasts, was your first book, like how did that come about? So many writers want the experience of writing a book? It's kind of, you know, a goalpost that many of us have. It's a chance to dive deeper into a topic and kind of not have the tyranny of short deadlines.
2 (6m 17s):
I was a little worried about it. I thought, well, writing a whole book might be really too boring for me. You know, I, I like learning new things all the time and I'm used to that, but it turns out that that both of the books I've written so far have, have really been so kind of diverse within the topics that it really becomes almost like a collection of a lot of magazine stories, sort of tied to a theme. And I often write in the first person to which kind of keeps things interesting for me. I'm, I'm really driven by my own curiosity about how something might affect my life and my themes tend to be the environment and sort of the hidden connections between nature and human health. And so that's something I've been able to do in these books.
2 (6m 60s):
That's amazing. That's such a great statement, the hidden connections between nature and human health. That's great. So how did you, your, the book breasts one in LA times, book prize for science and technology, how did you choose that topic and then how was it received? Yeah, so the story there is, you know, I, I've been really interested in environmental health and concerned about how pollution and how, you know, sort of the way we treat the planet comes back to bite us a little bit in terms of our own human health. I was reading some studies that industrial pollution was finding its way into human breast milk. And at the time I was actually nursing my second child and I became just really deeply interested in kind of what this meant for her health, what it means for our health, for our breast health.
2 (7m 50s):
And it turns out that I could actually have my own breast milk tested. So I sent it to a lab in Germany or FedEx at the time, there were very few labs that were able to sort of pull out these molecules in breast milk and analyze them. And my breast malt came back positive for jet fuel and pesticides and flame retardants. And so that launched this whole investigation of, well, what are these compounds mean? What do they mean for neurological development? You know, what do they mean for cancer risk and so on? And so that's really what launched the breast book. I was just interested in how breasts as a body part can sort of tell this an environmental history and it becomes a history of our planet as well as just a history of, you know, what our health looks like, kind of in this new, modern context, right.
2 (8m 42s):
That our organs have never really been in before. Well, and they tell us, right, you know, breast milk is the best you should be, you know, breastfeeding. And then of course for like, oh my God, what's in it. Right. It's supposed to be the best thing. Exactly. You know, I wrote a few chapters in that book about breast milk, but I also wrote a lot of other things like, you know, breast cancer and early puberty. I mean, I sort of looked at the whole life cycle, but you're right. I mean, breast milk is the perfect food for humans, right? It's the only food on the planet that is actually designed perfectly to be ingested by humans. And so we've taken it and we've sort of, you know, corrupted it in these small ways. I mean, breastmilk is still the best option because formula also has chemicals in it.
2 (9m 25s):
And it's also missing a lot of great immunological properties, you know, various special brain building properties that, that can't be really simulated in a lab yet. So I'm still a fan of breast milk, but I do wish that we could clean up our environment to the point where these compounds don't end up in our babies. Exactly.
3 (9m 45s):
And you know, it makes me think Florence, you know, everyone is very concerned of course, about the pandemic and rightfully so, but there's so many things killing us and killing us. It's far greater numbers that ho how do we bring focus on to some of this, you know, when you think 800,000 people a year die of heart disease, and most of it is due to lifestyle choices.
2 (10m 18s):
That's right. And also air pollution, you know, something I've been following for a long time, we have these compounds in diesel sort of black soot. It caused a tremendous amount of disease and death worldwide. You know, of course, one of these sort of ironies of the pandemic is that a lot of this industrial activity slowed down temporarily and air became cleaner, you know, than it's been in decades and decades. And so I think there was this kind of bittersweet moment where, you know, yes, there's this tragic loss of economic output, but at the same time, people are noticing the birds and they're seeing the mountains, you know, and I think in parts of like Katmandu people were able to see the mountains for the first time in a long time, see the stars at night.
2 (11m 7s):
And I, I, so I think there's in a way been this silver lining of these things make us feel healthy and they make us feel good. So how do we move on from here in a way that, that honors and values what makes us awesome, but point it's going to be, it's going to be our challenge. I think so that we just don't say, oh, 2020 was a bad year. I'm glad it's behind us now, but let's, let's move on. If we, hopefully we've learned and, and brings into focus. If we were this concerned about how, what, you know, 250,000 people dying, what about the numbers dying on these other things that we could actually change?
2 (11m 48s):
There's I think there's a moment here for real reflection and opportunity. It's a pivot point, and it's going to be really interesting to see whether we can move forward intelligently and humanely, who
3 (12m 2s):
Can keep that focus on the public, the media.
2 (12m 8s):
Well, of course, I'm a big fan of the media, you know, as, as one of the points of solution here, you know, I think that societal change doesn't really happen without a lot of political will and also leadership. So I think, you know, I like to think journalism can help inform us, but I also think we need leaders who emerge from this moment, you know, I'll get people like <inaudible>, I think she's inspired so many people. And I, and I'm happy that the media has sort of elevated her, but I, but I also think it just extends way beyond that.
2 (12m 48s):
And of course there's tremendous distrust of the media now as well. And so I think there has to be a lot of work kind of regain that. And I think that's going to be a real challenge. Well, and I think collective will on corporations. I think there'll be interesting as well. I think, you know, leadership is important, but that can come from not only political or government leadership, but sort of the corporations of really standing up and saying, you know, truly we're going to change, not from a sort of greenwash, Washington perspective. And I think that's one of the reasons we wanted to do sort of this sort of podcast series this season around by Ophelia was to really start talking about that nature connection.
2 (13m 31s):
Right. So when did you have that first sort of awareness of the term, because you've been doing work, if you will, in nature and the connection to nature and that we are part of biophilia are part of nature for so long, but when did that term come into your sort of an act isn't monocular and understanding the hypothesis? Oh, that's a good question, Monica. I feel like I've mentioned earlier with the term for actually a really long time. I, I knew Steven Keller when I was in college and I've been following his work for a long time. Unfortunately, he's no longer with us. I have also been following the work of EO Wilson, you know, who really popularized that term, wrote some various Seminole books, including the biophilia hypothesis.
2 (14m 19s):
He didn't invent that term, but he did popularize it. And you know, it's a concept that I think just resonates with so many of us because we understand that it's real, you know, as humans, we have a natural affinity for living things, and we know that, you know, we need them in a healthy world and to feel healthy as people. So I've, I've really enjoyed through Sarah and B to learn meeting new people who are practicing the concept, you know, the architects and the landscape architects and the, and the public policy people. I, you know, there's, there's so much going on in this field right now. And I think more than ever, there is a recognition that we need to learn how to make our cities and our communities and our neighborhoods, you know, help them put some of these concepts into better practice.
2 (15m 9s):
Yeah. Well, and I know that one of the people that, that Steve always had admired was Richard lube, which, you know, maybe he didn't think of himself as sort of a biophilic leader, but he really is with children and nature network and connecting, you know, all of us to nature. Were you inspired by him at all to do the nature fix? Were you aware of him? Cause I think your book, the nature fix, which is why nature makes us happier, healthier and more creative as I have it right here. It's so phenomenal because you really went out and studied the research and did it on yourself even. So tell us a little bit, how did the nature fix come, come together for you and why that book and topic?
2 (15m 55s):
Yes. And I'll tell that story because Richard Lewis does boot back into it. You know, as I say, a lot of my journalism is driven by my own curiosity. And so after 23 years of living in Colorado and Montana and having a very spoiled, lovely existence in the Rocky mountains, my family moved to the heart of Washington DC. And that was about eight years ago now. And when that happened, I felt like the stress bomb, you know, sort of went off in my brain. I was suddenly in this big city, there were jets flying overhead every 90 seconds, you know, tremendous, you know, noise, pollution, air pollution, traffic the whole bit.
2 (16m 35s):
And it really stressed me out. And in fact, I started to just wonder about how our external landscape gets reflected in our internal emotional landscape. And of course the term that kept coming into my head was nature deficit disorder. And that is a term that is coined by the journalist Richard Lu. And he really focused on children in his really Seminole 2006 book, last child in the woods. But I, you know, as an adult, I thought, well, of course this is affecting adults too. When we are deprived of nature, bad things started happening, right. We start, I think, you know, experiencing these diseases of the indoors really, which include all of these epidemic diseases that so many of us Western societies are now facing things like obesity and diabetes and depression and anxiety, vitamin D deficiency.
2 (17m 34s):
Near-sightedness, I mean, there's this whole list of diseases that are greatly exacerbated by time indoors. And I've started to wonder, is that what I'm experiencing? Is that why I can't sleep? Is that why I'm anxious? You know, is that why I'm stressed out? Am I just spending enough time being connected to nature and the way that I was when I was living in Colorado. And so I wanted to find out what the latest science had to say about it. And it turns out that there were some really, really interesting new studies going on around the world. I think there's been a resurgence in the scientific research in this area, partly because of mobile devices. Honestly, you know, I think there's this kind of collective anxiety about how plugged in our children are, how plugged in we are.
2 (18m 21s):
And we are more nature deprived as a society and we have ever been in our entire evolution. And so just naturally I think a lot of scientists are drawn to that. You know, here is a natural experiment. What does it mean? What does it mean for being human? What does it mean for our states of mind and for our health and for our psychology. And they'd been really creative about looking at a science from a number of different levels, different, large scale epidemiological studies, you know, what happens to diseases and a community when people live really close to greenspace, as opposed to living farther away from it. And there've been some really interesting, there's really interesting data about that. People do live longer and live healthier if they live closer to greenspace and that's even after adjusting for socioeconomic factors, then there've been a number of just a small scale sort of psychological studies.
2 (19m 10s):
You know, what happens to veterans when they spend time in the wilderness, if they have PTSD, what happens to ourselves and our immune cells in a Petri dish, you know, when they're exposed to certain compounds from the forest, right? So there are all these different, different scales and different levels that the research has been, you know, undergoing. And I think that that's super fascinating as a journalist to sort of do the overview and kind of put some of those trends together. Yeah. One of the aspects of the book, I think it was in maybe the, one of the first couple of chapters, maybe chapter four, I think I note here that you wore an EEG device on your head, which I think tracked brainwaves, right.
2 (19m 53s):
Is that how that works? And you basically went into different settings. So tell us about that and what you've learned there. Cause that, that made me really, really was such a great chapter to, to read. Thank you, Monica. Yeah. I, part of the way that I tell stories is, you know, using myself I guess is kind of a subject and it's not necessarily science, but it's a way to talk about the science. And so when I heard that there were experiments looking at brainwaves in different environments, I decided to borrow one of these portable EEG devices and that stands for electroencephalography. So these are devices that used to not be able to take out of the lab, but now you can, and they measure brainwaves in different parts of your brain that indicate different brain states.
2 (20m 39s):
I think the science is still sort of evolving on sort of how to interpret some of this data, but I wore the, the let's see, I wore these portable devices in a couple of different settings and I worked with different researchers to set this up. I wore them in city parks and I wore them on city streets. And then I wore them in wilderness areas in sort of different levels to find out, does this actually change my brain like being in these different environments? And one of the things that we were really interested in measuring was alpha waves. So those are associated with a state of sort of calm and alert. And sometimes some of these states of relaxation are hard to access when our eyes are open because there's so much stimulation.
2 (21m 28s):
And that's part of why we don't necessarily access a relaxation stage in the city. You know, we need to be really alert. We need to be taking in information, but when we're someplace quiet, whether our, even if our eyes are open, we can read these natural landscapes in a way that still offers relaxation and calm. And that's why these settings are so important for human health. They really do help us de-stress, you know, on the most basic level. And I found it was kind of interesting. I'm very sensitive to noise pollution. So even in city parks, I was not able to really relax according to my brainwave data. You know, I was still sort of annoyed by the sound of traffic in the airplanes and you know, the radios and the, you know, a lot of city parks are pretty busy and they're beautiful and there's still a lot of benefits you could get from them.
2 (22m 22s):
And I think they're incredibly important. And I talked about that, but in terms of like deep relaxation, like that's not where I need to go for that. And I was only able to get those kinds of deep alpha states when I was in the wilderness. Now when I was on a lake in Maine when I was on a river in Montana. So for me it was, it was in fact kind of illuminating cause I was like, oh yeah, I actually, I need wilderness. I needed, yeah, I think we all need it. One of the things that I actually, my husband has an aura ring, which I guess he uses it to track sleep. And so I think I'm gonna maybe ask for one for Christmas, but I'm sort of fascinated by, you know, the states, the sort of calmer meditative states, including sleep that you're starting to hear more and more, you know, sort of maybe even it's probably the wrong word, clean out your brain when you're in a different state and refocus you.
2 (23m 25s):
And I think nature has that opportunity to your point. That's really interesting about the calm alert, alpha waves. The other thing that I thought was really interesting in was the term forest bathing, cause you mentioned chemicals that the trees can put off that sometimes are, you know, we are finding can be really good for you. And I think bathing was sort of maybe a year or two ago sort of was a bit of a, sort of a raging trend, very exciting, but also kind of quirky. Will you tell us a little bit about that? I think you, did you travel to Japan to learn about this or I did. I did, yes for the book. And also I got an assignment from outside magazine, right about where the science was taking place now that I could actually go of participate in and witnessed.
2 (24m 11s):
And there was some really interesting ongoing studies in Japan and what researchers they were looking at was measuring physiological data in people who were, you know, quote unquote, forest bathing. So what that means, you know, it's not disrobing in nature, it's really a practice for sort of opening all of your senses and really being present and mindful, you know, in that space. So there are exercises for listening, listening for the birds, listening for the breeze and then, you know, smelling things and touching things. These are sort of invitations almost that that just really locate you in time and space and sort of help clear your head from, you know, thoughts that, that may be less helpful.
2 (25m 1s):
It's really a state of mindfulness that you can access by being outside and they call it forest bathing or Shinran Yoku. And so what the researchers were finding was that even just after 15 minutes of this people's blood pressures were dropping, their heart rates were dropping. Their heart rate, variability was increasing, which is positive in terms of stress regulation, their cortisol stress hormones were dropping and their moods were increasing. And this was after just 15 minutes of being outside. So, you know, maybe we don't all have to learn how to meditate on a cushion, hard to do and hard to stick when we can get some of these incredible benefits just by being outside and, and sort of really focusing on those senses and opening those senses.
2 (25m 48s):
So yeah, that's what started it. And I actually wrote that article for Alside magazine in 2014 and it went viral. The article went viral and enforced bathing became in fact, quite, quite trendy to the point where there are now forest bathing guides or forests. They're the guides in, in many, many cities across the country, corporations are interested in this. Doctors are interested in it. It's been super exciting to us. Yeah. We did four speed and exercise with, with a guide at one of the biophilic summits. And in fact, we had a guide here for a little bit and then sort of the pandemic, you know, blew up all gatherings and events.
2 (26m 28s):
But I think that that even if you don't have sort of a certified person, I think the idea to your point of, we don't have to sit on a pillow to meditate. We can just take a walk in nature for 15 minute. Amazing. One of the things I also liked about the book, you know, so you sort of, at the end, you sort of wrap up because, you know, I think a lot of people will say, well, you know, I don't live in Montana. I don't live in the middle of the woods. You know, it's just not easy for me to access nature. And so I think you addressed that in the book as well. And your final chapter chapter is sort of quote unquote nature for the rest of us. And I think you cite that, you know, I think we've been hearing these trends.
2 (27m 11s):
The majority of people live in cities and by 2030, 2050, you know, I don't even know how many more, you know, million will move to cities. Now we can talk a little bit about the pandemic because there's been a bit of a shift to there if people, people seeking more natural environments. But tell me a little bit about, you know, the, what, what sort of your solutions were for sort of, if you will, the city dweller talk a little bit about that. And then I do want to dig into the pandemic a little bit after this. Oh my God. Yeah. Thanks for that question. So when I moved from Colorado to Washington DC, I realized the only way I was going to survive was if I learned how to be in urban nature, how to find it, how to find beauty, how to open my senses, you know, to these kind of smaller and less dramatic moments of beauty.
2 (28m 6s):
And I'm happy to say that, that I did learn and I feel like those skills are now more important than ever because we are all kind of stuck in place. Right? And I think so many of us are learning that we do find comfort in these moments of beauty. And in fact, they are critical, you know, to our sort of getting through the day when we are deprived of so many of our other normal comforts of being together with friends and, you know, hearing concerts and going to museums, or however it is that we traveling, you know, that we often derive comfort.
2 (28m 46s):
We're S we're having to sort of learn a whole new vocabulary for this. I had to do it when I moved to DC. And now I feel like it's a great opportunity to sort of, you know, talk about those lessons and help other people. There's been a tremendous interest in nearby nature. Parks have never been more important to people. And I think, again, there's this kind of silver lining here that during this time of stress, we are able to appreciate things that perhaps we had been overlooking before. And so, so I believe that we are now able to sort of appreciate some of these experiences that we had overlooked before.
2 (29m 26s):
And I just hope, you know, that now that we know that we feel better and that we sleep better and we feel a little calmer and more stored, you know, after time in nature that, that this will be a habit that stays with us. I really think it will be because, you know, once you forged some of these connections to nature, they don't just disappear. They stay in your toolbox and you know, that they're there. So, you know, getting back to biophilia, I I've come to really appreciate this term of urgent biophilia that after crisis and after disaster, we turn to the natural world right away. You know, it's the place that people, you know, people gathered in central park after nine 11, they replanted trees after the Joplin, tornado and hurricane Katrina.
2 (30m 14s):
You know, the sort of finding comfort in nature becomes an urgent necessity. So there's a sense of urgent biophilia. And in, in the way that cities talk about stockpiling, you know, masks and ventilators and having enough capacity for hospital beds, I believe that cities also now need to start talking about how to stockpile nature, you know, how to make these parks higher quality, how to make them bigger. Right? We've learned that there's a great disparity in neighborhoods that have access to large high-quality parks and neighborhoods that do not right. So this access to nature is a social justice issue.
2 (30m 54s):
Another topic that we're talking a lot about these days, it's very necessary that we do. And, and in a time when we need to sort of be physically distanced from each other, larger parks, larger city parks are much more important than smaller parks, right? We need to feel safe. We need to feel comfortable. And so I think building parks and improving parks needs to be a priority for every city.
3 (31m 21s):
And that's one of my hot topics is that many cities need to look at their storm water management because stormwater has a lot of land that's not being used or accessible. And if your parks department and the stormwater department could come together, it would, it could really change the cities. And every developer knows everything they have to do for the automobile turn lines, parking spaces, how much asphalt you have to put down. But there's a very little about connection to nature. And you give the great point Florence about there is a difference between parks and natural nature. And if we just started requiring to demonstrate connection, present, or future to natural nature, for any places, putting a lot of housing in it would, you know, it could make a difference.
3 (32m 12s):
And where is our natural nature? It's all of our tributaries, all of our streams that we've ignored or covered up and turned our back on because they've, they've turned, you know, we've done such a job, bad job with stormwater. So there's real solutions right in our cities. And it's starting to happen. If you look at LA changing the, the big ditch into a bioretention park and Atlanta, where we're looking at a hundred miles along the Chattahoochee river for 200 square miles,
2 (32m 43s):
I think those stories are so encouraging Steve. And I think you're, you're right on, you know, we need to figure out how to benefit these ecosystems and systems in general, that also end up really benefiting human health at the same time. And have you seen Florence, you know, during the pandemic, obviously you are sort of sitting right in the center as an expert on nature. Tell me, like, what are you been hearing? Like has the demand for your background increased, like what's going on in your world? It really has Monica. I mean, I feel like this book came out put about three years ago and it's really undergoing a bit of a resurgence.
2 (33m 27s):
Now. It that's been really exciting for me to still continue to share some of the lessons from this book. I feel like they're so necessary and helpful for people. You know, one of the things that I get really sad about is that our children, you know, are, are not getting the experiences right, that they were getting before. And a lot of them are sitting at home, they're plugged into their devices, they're losing educational opportunities. I've been very heartened though, that many families are learning. That one thing that does make their kids happy is going outside.
2 (34m 6s):
And, you know, as winter's coming on, I think it's really important to still point out that kids love being outside in the winter. Right? And it's, sometimes it can be hard to get out that front door. It could be hard to get off the couch, right. But we all have that experience of once you're out there for 15 or 20 minutes, you're so glad you are. And in fact, there are studies and this is important for kids too. There are studies that show that even when the weather is really crummy, when you come back inside your, your more alert, your working memory is stronger. Your attention span is sharper. So if we care about our own productivity and about our kids' capacities to like go back right to their zoom classrooms and actually get something out of it, you know, having them run around outside is, is just important on so many levels, but they needed for their circadian rhythms.
2 (34m 59s):
And so that felt eat better and sleep better. They needed for their socialization because they can be with kids outside. If, you know, if they're socially distanced and they, they just become, you know, D their moods improve. I know as a mom, my kids always got along better outside. They would start building forts and, you know, throwing rocks into the Creek. And they just, you know, all the little tensions and sort of indoor life would evaporate for awhile. So I'm heartened to see that people are getting that message a lot of them, but I, again, I just can't emphasize enough.
2 (35m 40s):
You know, I think we need better access to parks in cities. And once we do go back to school, we really need to prioritize green schoolyards, outdoor education, things like farm programs, again, that help these kids in their test scores and they help them move with their attention spans. And so I'm just really hopeful that we will be able to take these lessons into the post pandemic world. Yeah. I think, I think it, it will happen. And you are seeing so many outdoor school schools prior, you know, our school here act in that's on property. They basically opened up the doors and pulled the tables outside.
2 (36m 20s):
And, you know, as it gets a little bit cooler, maybe they're moving a little bit more, but they're still keeping the doors open and they've been able to be in school, you know, with masks, with social distancing. So there are good solutions there. And I think, yeah, we have to remember to take what we've learned and not just write off 2020, like you said, Steve, and just say, oh, that was a blip moving back, you know, to the back to normal. I just think we have to rethink what normal is we do. And I've also been heartened that adults are getting a lot out of this moment too, by learning the birds and hearing the birds for the first time I know in my neighborhood, I, I have started walking a few blocks to this bluff every night to watch the sunset.
2 (37m 4s):
It became this kind of summer ritual. And so many of my neighbors were doing it too. And so there was this wonderful sense of community out there reconnecting with the cycles of nature, just the reminder that the sun sets and rises every day. Right. It's just, it's such a metaphor for getting through a hard time. And, and I think that connecting with these cycles and rituals, you know, I, I just really hope it continues. It's been wonderful. Yeah. We, we, our friends at Sarah and be here, we were like, oh, this was the most glorious spring we've ever had the words that dah, dah, dah, dah. And I don't know.
2 (37m 44s):
I mean, it was beautiful, but was it just that we were noticing it more, you know, everybody was so connected and you have incredible sunsets there as I recall. Yeah. One of the things I want to touch on before we go is, as you were mentioning, when you were here a few years ago, that you were working on a new book, it sounds like you just finished it. Can you share, can you tell us a little bit about what it's about and let's see, I'm trying to think of how I can tell you about it to say, is that in the nature fix, I look at doses of nature. That's kind of how I structured the book sort of nearby nature.
2 (38m 24s):
Then more kind of intentional, like half day or day trips to nature. And then I end with the three-day effect for what happens to our brains and bodies when we're actually in the wilderness for three days. And we can really think about like the big questions in our lives and our self-concept and some of the really important times for grieving and for trauma and things like that. And in this new book, I actually go, even beyond that, what happens after two weeks in the wilderness? How does that help people address trauma and grief? And so, so that's an area that I go in the new book. So I, I, I'm just passionate about this topic and I'm just taking it farther than ever. Do you have a title or a release date or have you just turned it in, just turned it in.
2 (39m 8s):
And those things are yet to be determined, but I will keep you posted Monica. I'd love to have you back for that. I know that you had been doing some work on the topic of awe. And I don't know if that comes in, obviously, you know, it can be in a sunset that you just, you know, are experiencing for a few minutes. Do you want to touch on that a little bit? Is that come into the book at all? Or it does. It does come into the book actually quite a lot. And I do talk a lot about the science of awe, which is a new area for scientific inquiry. It's sort of the last positive emotion, I guess, to be sort of studied in some ways it was kind of under appreciated before. And it turns out when we experienced all these amazing things that happen.
2 (39m 50s):
We at least at laboratory studies, we, we act more generously to other people. We behave better on teams. We have a smaller sense of our ego and ourself and a larger sense of our connection to the world around us and also to each other. So I think we, you know, we've all had that experience right, of seeing the Milky way, or, you know, looking out onto a large and dramatic ocean and in a way, it, it quiets the negative thoughts in our brains, right? Our, our sort of personal problems recede as we become kind of awestruck by the incredible vastness and beauty of the world around us.
2 (40m 36s):
And we, we, we do feel smaller and there are studies actually showing that, that people, they calculate their own body size as being smaller, after looking at something really dramatically beautiful
3 (40m 51s):
Every day, it happens with our, you know, sunrise and sunset. And it's important for, to have places that you can observe that I see that all over Sierra and be at times, and people are posting pictures of these great sunsets.
2 (41m 5s):
That's right. And, and, and not only do we, not only do we need to feel that connection to nature, but right now, right, more than ever, we need to feel community what we need to feel like we're in this together. We can help each other get through it. We care about each other. The only way to really fix a pandemic, right. Is to sort of acknowledge that you're in it together and you're taking care of each other. And so looking at the sunset, looking at the phases of the moon and the stars, there's a sense that we're all at the same sky, right? It's the same world that we are hard of. And that's now a more important sensation than ever before.
3 (41m 44s):
And it's another reason that pollution is a problem because some people are deprived of those stars, pollution that hangs in any of our cities.
2 (41m 54s):
Well, I'm going to end it on there. That was beautiful. Florence, thank you so much for taking the time today. It was so great to see you again on zoom and we can't wait to have you back at ceremony, maybe for another book signing. Thank you, Monica. And thank you, Steve. I'm just a huge fan of the work you're doing there. Keep it up. Well,
3 (42m 12s):
Thank you. And enjoy your time on the banks of the Mississippi. I know that's wonderful. I live for a short period of time in St. Louis and we'd get out cause some of those great places and cottages on the, on the banks of America, it truly is. You can just start imagining 200 years ago when the trade and the boats and what happened.
4 (42m 32s):
Thanks so much for having me on bye bye.
0 (42m 43s):
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