Biophilia & BrandCulture with Jon Hutson

Jon Hutson is the Co-founder of BrandCulture, an agency that integrates branding and organizational development as the flip sides of the same coin. In this episode, Jon talks about becoming an advocate for biophilia after being gifted a book by E.O. Wilson. Once he moved to Serenbe he got in deeper and created the Biophilia Poster Competition, which brought in more than 3,500 poster submissions from around the world and was displayed in the woods of Serenbe Fall 2020. Jon incorporates biophilic principles into his client work on brand development and culture building and you can find him running the Serenbe trails most mornings.

Transcript

0 (1s):
Hey guys, it's Monica here. I wanted to tell you about a new podcast that I've started with my very good friend, Jennifer Walsh called biophilic solutions. Our last season of ceremony stories, building a biophilic movement was so popular that we decided to dedicate an entire podcast to it every other week. Jennifer and I will sit down with leaders in the growing field of biophilia. We'll talk about local and global solutions to help nurture their living social and economic systems that we all need to sustain future generations more often than not. Nature has the answers. You can find biophilic solutions on apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe and follow us today. So you don't miss an episode.

0 (41s):
All right, now let's get back to ceremony B stories. John Hudson is the co-founder of brand culture, an agency that integrates branding and organizational development as the flip sides of the same coin. In this episode, John talks about becoming an advocate for biophilia after being gifted, a book by EO Wilson. Once he moved to Seren bay, he got in deeper and created the biophilia poster competition, which brought in more than 3,500 poster submissions from around the world and was displayed in the woods of Sam B fall 2020. John incorporates biophilic principles into his client, work on brand development and culture building. And you can find him running this Aaron betrayals most mornings.

1 (1m 22s):
Well, one aspect of biophilic principles is this idea of experience of space in place, in addition to the direct experience of nature or that the indirect experience of nature. And so those unexpected spaces is part of the ideas or the principles of biophilia, which is very much part of the intentional strategy and design. And I can call you conceive serendipity.

0 (1m 44s):
All right. I want to welcome everybody back to ceremony stories today. You may hear a little bit of thunder in the background or in the midst of a, kind of a grand lightning storm here at Sarah and beach. Today. We have John Hudson and Steve Nygren with us. Welcome gentlemen. Good afternoon, Monica.

1 (2m 0s):
Hi, John

0 (2m 3s):
John. It's so exciting to have you here with us today. You are sort of a fairly new resident. You've been here for a few years with us, but one of the first things we ask everybody here is how did you discover Sarah MB and come to be our neighbor?

1 (2m 20s):
Well, we moved here two years ago, just this month, actually, almost frankly, probably this week, honestly, a few days before our daughter started school at the time as a sophomore. And I actually had read about Sarah being the New York times, probably four or five, six years ago, and read the article and talked about Steve. And I thought I said to myself, I said, I know Steve. And that dated back to some 25, 30 years ago when I actually had first lived in Atlanta and was involved in different aspects of the hospitality and entertainment business and Atlanta and new Steve when he was a restaurant tour.

1 (2m 60s):
So that ultimately led to the opportunity to visit Seren B about three years ago. And then the series of events led us to move, move here.

0 (3m 12s):
I love it. And when you came, did you know at the time that you were going to move or are you just coming down for a little afternoon getaway?

1 (3m 22s):
Well, I actually, I had forgot that I had read that article the New York times, and I was having launched with a friend on a Saturday and we moved from California from Los Angeles area and we were on a Ventura beach having a lunch. And I said, I was going to Atlanta again. And I, we were in the process at that time of also thinking about a move back to Atlanta and we're torn between Atlanta possibly or Savannah where my wife's parents live. And he said, have you ever been to Saron B? And I said, oh, I forgot about ceremony. I say, I have to visit <inaudible> on this trip. And let me see if I'll try to book a room there.

1 (4m 2s):
So I tried to book a room and the end was full. So I ended up staying at an Airbnb rental and for three, four days, and it was fabulous and enjoyed the entirety of the experience and call my wife. And I said, you need to come to ceremony. And so I think probably three weeks, four weeks later, we made the second trip and she came and it was sort of the best of all worlds for an aspect of what we were looking for. And we have been frankly trying to move from California for a number of years. And it was just an opportunistic time because we had two twin boys that had graduated from high school.

1 (4m 45s):
They were going on to college. And so it was a good time. And Sarah B was, again, the best of all worlds. I grew up in small town in the Midwest. And so had that small town lifestyle had that European lifestyle, which my wife was familiar with having grown up in Europe at the same time, I'd had this new urbanism aspect. And then most importantly, that relationship and connection to nature, that was very important to us as we're very active, outdoors and active from the standpoint of being outside and spending as much time as we can. Now, of course, hiking through the trails and myself, I'm quite known for running on the different roads around ceremonies.

0 (5m 32s):
Yes. I see you out all the time running and you moved and opened an office here. You have, you have offices up at Ponce in the city of Atlanta, but I do see you right now. You are testing out sort of a space here in the neighborhood to see if that could be a secondary office to tell us a little bit about your company brand culture and where you guys are located and such.

1 (5m 55s):
Yeah, we, the name of the firm's brand culture and we're a brand performance and organizational growth consultancy. We've been on our own for about 15 years. We started in Los Angeles with my partner and we then also set up a team in Barcelona, Spain, which is a bit of a long story, but it's largely our creative team. And it's a good lifestyle strategy for occasional visits to Barcelona because of my earlier days in Atlanta, we always felt that there was an opportunity to do business in Atlanta. So we've had clients off and on over the 15 years in Atlanta, and then about four or five years ago, we started to hire people in Atlanta.

1 (6m 43s):
And we got to the point where we said, let's try that, see if I can come here and be more active in the community. And that was part of the reason for the move. So from the standpoint of the physical space, partly because of COVID, of course we're all working from home. So we started to kind of dismantle our office infrastructure first within LA and started put ourself in a position to work from home, but also looking forward, we think we're going to keep a more real flexible approach to our office space, probably moving into the different shared office spaces, which we've done in the past and here in Atlanta and it's there.

1 (7m 26s):
And B the opportunity came up with one of the residents said, I heard you might be looking for an office space. And I said, I was, but I said, I just leased a space in Atlanta, but tell me more so I can get it. And it's just a small studio and it made sense. So we said, let's try it out. And what we're trying to do is work from here, but also go into the city where we need to. And what I've really imagined is that we'll probably have a hybrid approach. We'll have some people in, in Atlanta, I'll be out here and hopefully we'll find more individuals that might join us out here and we'll be back and forth. And then myself, as we continue to escalate traveling, other two clients will between the offices, I'll be back and forth to Los Angeles.

1 (8m 9s):
And I'm trying to make a trip to Barcelona in a couple of weeks. And I hope to continue that. So that is really the, what we see for the future is more of a hybrid, flexible model. And part of that's a strategy so that we can attract individuals that are also looking for that type of work-life balance.

0 (8m 27s):
Yeah, no, I, I, I can't remember who I was listening to on the radio, but somebody just instituted a four day workweek because they're trying to attract talent and, you know, they still have to put their 40 hours in, in those four days, but I thought that was an interesting, just to continue thinking about the trends of what, you know, kind of employment looks like. What have you found between coming from LA and now to Atlanta? Like, what are you seeing? I mean, clearly COVID has been kind of a crazy in the past couple months or 18 months, but what are you seeing about the two cities and, and, and what do you like about Atlanta?

1 (9m 5s):
Well, I I've cut my commute down from about an average of two and a half hours a day, total to a walk that's now 10 minutes. And so that's a big plus. And how many calls do you now have while you're in the woods? Quite, quite often, that's another good point. And, you know, people are starting to get used to it and there's, you know, the big joke or clients is they never quite know where I'm going to be because I quite mobile. And I've also known Steve for in the morning when you see out, you know, running at five, six or seven, the morning, I'm generally have a conference call with my colleagues in Barcelona. And so that's not, not an unusual, but even commuting into Atlanta.

1 (9m 50s):
I, if I commute into Ponce city market where we have our other office set up, it's 45 minutes and that's compared to, you know, good day in LA was an hour and 15 minutes, you know, a typical day might have been an hour and a half and a bad day could be two hours. So that's the huge change between moving back here. And I know everyone, other people in Atlanta complain about the traffic of Atlanta, but I just, you know, I just chuckled because communities in Atlanta are nothing compared to Los Angeles and Monica is

0 (10m 26s):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. One of the things that you have always been interested and I think, and I don't want to put total words in your mouth, but I think by, by moving here, it sort of came even further to the forefront of sort of your mind and work is biophilia. And we've talked about that a little bit on the podcast. We did a whole season on biophilia and talked about the importance. We obviously integrate it from a design principles into how we build Sarah and B, but tell us how you work with biophilia and sort of how that's impacted your life prior to even being here.

1 (11m 8s):
Yeah, the first time that I really started to learn about the concept of biophilia was through Wilson's book consilience, which I re read when I was living in New York city in Manhattan, about 20 some years ago, the consilience book was a different sort of aspect of way into the conversation about biophilia is that it was really discussing the idea of interdisciplinary collaboration between the likes of botanist, as you know, Wilson was to biologists, to psychologist or engineers or other different disciplines.

1 (11m 48s):
And the thesis of it was that by collaborating and interdisciplinary collaboration, you achieve a better outcome. It's thinking. And then the book also talked and covered off on aspects of different aspects of the idea of biophilia. Then over the year is to answer your question. How does that relate to my work brand culture is I shared is a brand performance and organizational growth consultancy. And our basic thesis is that strong cultures are the foundation of great brands. And so what we work with organizations to help them more effectively articulate their value proposition, how they position their brand in the marketplace.

1 (12m 33s):
And then ultimately we work with them to help them more effectively align the organizational culture around their brand and their go to market and our business strategy. And our thesis is that by helping organizations create a healthy culture, that's aligned with their brand, that they will be able to outperform the competition and they will have to be able to engage their employees in a more effective way and inspire their employees in a way that is well aligned with their customers, wants, needs, and desires. And so within that construct is that we believe that having a healthy organizational culture is, is vital. And that we see in over the last several years, we see biophilia playing a role in that, but I feel like principal's playing a role on that and wellness principles playing a role in that.

1 (13m 20s):
And we think that's coming increasingly important today and will continue to be more important in the future. So there's that, there's that aspect of it that correlates to my profession and the work that I do. But then there's also the personal aspect that as I shared earlier, you know, we enjoy being in the nature of my wife and I enjoy hiking and I enjoy running. And just that aspect of it is something that's important to our lifestyle. And we of course did that in California, but we lived in a quintessential American suburb and it's not the same experiences as we enjoy out here.

0 (13m 53s):
Well, and one of the things that we benefited from last year was the biophilic poster contests that you really stood up as a brand new idea. Can you, can you share a little bit about that with us?

1 (14m 8s):
Sure. We had a poster design exhibition in Los Angeles, which I think spent now about three years ago. Our first one that we did in collaboration with one of our designers, August Savannah, who is a Ukrainian designer, that's been with us for a half dozen or so years. And she is very much involved in this poster, art movement and culture on a global basis. And we did an initial exhibition at their Helms design center in Culver city, California, which is part of greater Los Angeles. And that was very successful. So we did a second one, which is about a hundred years of Bauhaus design and that was even more successful.

1 (14m 49s):
So was that success as we making our move to Lanta, we were, you know, thinking of back of her mind about trying to do another poster design exhibition in LA, and then we would probably do it in Atlanta. And one day I was out running and I ran by the Daisy and there was a woman sitting at the table there and we struck up a conversation and there was a bit of a long story, but she explained to me her background and it was Elizabeth calibrate and Liz calibrators that worked with Stephen Kellert, as you know, and has been a collaborator with you all here. One of the, you know, leaders in the whole principles and theories of biophilic design and biophilia.

1 (15m 34s):
And so we started having a conversation about biophilia, which was very helpful to help me understand more of how the theory and the principles that are involved. So the next week I had a lunch set up with Elaine delayer who ran the Atlanta international design festival. And I was just meeting a lane just to learn more about the design festival, how we might participate. Now we could make increasing contribution to the design movement in Atlanta, and we were having that lunch. And I said, you know, we were thinking about doing poster design exhibition. And most recently I thought, what if we did it on biophilia and biophilic design? And she said, well, that would be awesome.

1 (16m 14s):
And we concluded in the international design festival and so on. So off we went and we set up the competition and we launched it. I think it was January of last year. And the plan was to have the exhibition in the spring. And we reached out to you first, Monica, of course. And then we had you all expressed interest in having it here at ceremony. And we also had had plans to have it at Ponce city market in Atlanta, and then take it to Los Angeles and Barcelona. So we launched the competition in January and we were frankly, a little overwhelmed because we had 3,500 design submissions from 167 from designers around the world.

1 (17m 0s):
And it was really exciting. It was in it then started to overlap for the entirety of the COVID epidemic and pandemic. And we started a pivot a bit to try to figure out how are we going to bring this to life. And as everything started to gain some sense of predictability, I suppose we slated to have the exhibition at Sharon B and the, I think it was September and we had it in the woods. We suspended the posters between trees in the woods. We tried to again, use natural materials. We use hemp rope for the suspension system.

1 (17m 41s):
We had a boy scout troop help tie the knots for the suspension system. And then we had the exhibition up for about a month here, and then we moved it to Ponce city market. And that same exhibition will be at the Helms design center in the next couple months here in Los Angeles. And then we're still have plans to try to take her to Barcelona and then knock on wood next year, 2022, we're going to relaunch a new design competition and continue to, hopefully if we're invited back to come back to Sam or go also

0 (18m 20s):
Officially, you were officially invited back right here on,

2 (18m 26s):
You know, what was so fantastic is right in the middle of the pandemic. There was an art exhibit in nature in the woods with total social distancing. And, and it was just fabulous to see when people were starved for events and art.

1 (18m 46s):
Well, thank you. It was a, it was a collaboration and again goes to what I've always envisioned. The opportunities would be at ceremony. And I probably didn't preface that. I said to myself, when I moved here one day, I'll find something to do and creative contribution to make the Sammy. And that just sort of unfolded

0 (19m 7s):
John, you know, it just to echo Steve's comments, you know, it was such a wonderful breath of fresh air and you included the kids and you had a scavenger hunt contest where the kids went around and found different posters and you were able to sell the posters. And then you were also able to include some resident work. It was such a wonderful event and so fun. And I can't wait to have it go to Helms, have to find a reason to be out there if it's coming in the next couple of months, what a blast. And, and I think that you're going to get even more overwhelming interest when you relaunch it next year, because, you know, just on your inaugural year, you already had 3,500 designers.

0 (19m 55s):
That's such a Testament to sort of your network and the really wonderful idea that it was. I'm actually, I know you're sitting in your office with three posters behind you and I have one right here. What did you find sort of came out of that, you know, like what, what was sort of your favorite sort of outcome of, of, of pulling that together?

1 (20m 19s):
Well, I, what you talked about part of the idea behind it was to create that experience. And that was something we tried to find ways that we can engage with the children and create different interactive activities. And we had plans to do more, but then of course, to create some limit limitations. But that's, I think part of my, again, my background in going back 25 years ago was working in the area of looking from brand from a standpoint of experience and even creating interactive experiences at, you know, in events, but also within place in placement. And so I think that it was a good example of what's possible.

1 (21m 2s):
I think people, we weren't sure what people would sink. We didn't know if, you know, the design aesthetic of graphic design would be received well at, and B we didn't know if people would just thought we were crazy, but it seemed to work and people expressed interest. So then it, the momentum grew. But I do think one of the most successful aspects of it was that engagement with the children and also some of the other artists in the community, which we hope to do more so in the future.

0 (21m 38s):
It's really great. So tell me about other sort of successes that you've had in Atlanta. Now that you've been back, any new fun clients or work that you are doing that you want to share with us?

1 (21m 55s):
Well, we've, we've been involved with, I think, two or three really important initiatives and programs in Atlanta and Georgia. We just help launch the partnership for inclusive innovation initiative, which is a public private partnership with the state of Georgia. That was originally is led by the Lieutenant governor Jeff Duncan in collaboration with Georgia tech and bud Peterson, who is the president of Meredith Georgia tech reads that initiative along with Debra 1:00 AM at Georgia tech and that program we launched about three months ago.

1 (22m 35s):
We're planning for the annual advisory board meeting in a few weeks, which includes leaders from several major, our Georgia corporations from Georgia power ups, Invesco, and many others. And so that's a really exciting initiative and really helping provide funding for programs that are helping advance inclusivity innovation across the entire state of Georgia. And that's a combination of both gender diversity, racial diversity, as well as diversity between the rural and urban area across Georgia often programs. And that exists within the urban area of greater Atlanta.

1 (23m 19s):
Sometimes have a, if you will, a first seat at the table, but the mission of this is to try to help spread innovation across the state of Georgia. And the two initial programs that were funded was a mesh program and net mesh network out of Augusta, and then a working farms fund program here in Georgia. We also are about ready to help relaunch a website for the Georgia innocence, which is an initiative that helps provide legal services and support for wrongly incarcerated or in prisons unjustly. And so that's exciting that's going to be on sale soon.

1 (23m 59s):
We helped also stand up and launched a, a D and I diversity inclusivity consulting practice with another team, the former chief equity officer of Atlanta Hawthorne and his colleagues. And on the commercial side, we're in the process of helping introduce a brand and a platform. That's bringing an interesting innovation out of Georgia tech, which is a electronic cold pasteurization process that it helps eradicate PEs and parasites and other disease from fruits and vegetables or other other produce and other products.

1 (24m 42s):
And that platform will launch more officially in the next few weeks. And then lastly, we're working with the introduction of a private bank and wealth advisory firm that is opening up an office in Atlanta, but it also is a Greenwich New York based firm that was originally founded by some of the founders of home Depot and other wall street finance ears. And then they also have offices in south Florida in Orlando, and we are in the process of an entire rebranding website launch and overall go to market strategy for that

0 (25m 24s):
Really what a breadth of exciting projects. I love that.

1 (25m 28s):
Yeah, that's the last one thrill interesting stories and van called Fieldpoint private, and it really brings back that more bespoke personal service. That is something that we've, you know, arguably lost from the past, but also with the technical logical innovation that provides a level of frictionless service as well. And then the unique characteristics of providing both private banking and wealth advisory services combining together,

0 (25m 55s):
That's exciting. Well, I would think that the Atlanta market would be ready for something like that. Right. So tell us a little bit more about now that you guys are here. We know that you're in the woods a lot. One of the questions we like to ask also is sort of, what is your favorite thing to share with guests? You know, if you have friends coming down or if, you know, you didn't know me and I was going to come to her for the first time, what would you share with them about the neighborhood that maybe you couldn't find out on the website?

1 (26m 33s):
Well, I think that we are, she know us well. I think typically we're going to take someone on a hike, which is, I think we've explored all the trails quite extensively. And I think that's probably one aspect that is part of the ceremony experience. That's important. We live over in Swan Ridge and that English European architectural design of Swan Ridge is fabulous. We live right on the cobblestone street. And it's interesting because I think SWAT Ridge, when I was first traveling to, and from here, it was probably three or four trips before I really appreciated or knew that what Swan Ridge was in its entirety.

1 (27m 19s):
And I think it's frankly, an area within ceremony that is often overlooked. And unless you actually walk it and visit it and you come across the bridge and it's a, it's a surprise, which is, I think in part, part of the intention, would Steve, when you designed it, that it's flat sort of, again, another aspect of ceremony, which is a special moment that you, that is unexpected, that makes it that unique experience.

0 (27m 48s):
Yeah. I love all of the little nooks and crannies or what we sometimes call pocket neighborhoods that are throughout the community and Swan Ridge is a great example. So for listeners, you can go to the bookstore or the general store, that kind of area that's Grange. And there is a little bridge behind the bookstore that will cross this gorgeous ravine. And depending on the time of year, you get like wild zelias and there's a Creek flowing underneath, and you can cross across that bridge and it will take you into more houses that we call kind of Swan Ridge. And then from there, you can walk even further across to the art farm where we have residency is in really a space that is being built out for really artists and studio space.

0 (28m 42s):
So yeah, you're kind of in this wonderful little yeah. Sort of secret English neighborhood.

1 (28m 49s):
Yeah. And that, that's another dimension I've Steve, you could speak more to that, about the design of how you conceive Stan B, but the biophilic principles, you know, one aspect of biophilic principles is this idea of experience of space and place in addition to the direct experience of nature or the indirect experience of nature. And so those unexpected spaces, those transitional spaces is part of the ideas of the principles of biophilia, which is very much part of the intentional strategy and design of I think, how you conceive ceremony.

2 (29m 26s):
Well, absolutely. And if you, if you visit this area, it's an a perfect example of how you can, a lot of density without disturbing nature. You have the loss and the commercial mixed use center that's built right into the corner, but we did not disturb the land. So you have underground parking that comes in on the side of the hill. And then as the courtyard takes you around back bridge takes you over to the next hill. Now in a traditional, even if you were developing it, unfortunately they would have probably put a huge Colbert in leveled that whole area.

2 (30m 14s):
And you would have had none of the characteristics that we see today. And we were able to leave trees within five feet of the buildings. We put the bridge in to exactly go between trees and hit the elevations of the Hills and created this charming pedestrian street. That was totally nestled in that specific piece of land. And for those that walk it, when you come to that intersection of having the choice to go to the art farm, you can also turn right or come back.

2 (30m 56s):
And then the lane takes you right along the farm. So the houses of that section look out their front windows and see our organic farms and the farmers are working. And so it really is a perfect intersection of this high density and nature and agriculture, right?

1 (31m 17s):
Well, for us, it just, it feels, it feels like we're living in a European village and that was one of the attractions for us. And it's a really engaging experience.

2 (31m 27s):
Well, interestingly, you have a couple neighbors who chose to live there because it was sort of their landing spot when they came back to the United States and, and out of walkable communities in Europe, this was the closest thing they could find in Metro Atlanta that sort of gave them a landing.

1 (31m 48s):
Right? My, my wife grew up in, in the Netherlands and also, so a lot of her mid years growing up was in that European culture.

0 (32m 2s):
Yes. And so I think, you know, most people, when they do come visit are really surprised by the variety of architecture throughout the different neighborhoods. And, and I think one of the wonderful things about ceremony is, is it's not this single architecture prescribed across the whole neighborhood, but you do find these like lovely pockets, you know, of homes that are sort of cohesive and Antwan Ridge is a wonderful example of that.

1 (32m 34s):
Yeah, it really is. And that is one another dimension. What's special about ceremony, the architectural planning and the inspiration of all the different homes and their commercial retail experience at Sarah B and how that's continuing to evolving with new expansion, new neighborhoods that is very much a part of what attracted us and continues to engage us. And it's a joy to see the new development emerging and to see what's, what's your starting to bring to life. And that is part of having been here now two years, we still are finding aspects of ceremony that are unique and interesting.

1 (33m 16s):
And we see the continued progression that we're excited about for the next 20, 30 years is we hope we hope to live here for the rest of our lives. Yeah,

0 (33m 26s):
Yeah, it is. It's always fun to see what the next thing, what the vision is. Steve always has the vision and then to see it come to life.

1 (33m 34s):
No, I, well, Steve, I've worked with a handful of what I would say extraordinary creative visionaries from, I worked for a few years with Wolfgang puck in Los Angeles. I worked for a London-based design communication brand experience agency by the name of imagination park is pretty well known with imagination. The creative force behind imagination was a guy by the name of Gary Withers. And Steve is the true creative visionary, and really the curator of this ceremony experience, which is much like what I saw happen with Wolfgang puck and his success in growing his organization much like what I saw with Gary Withers growing his organization and the ability to have a creative visionary, that's able to set the vision, but also able to curate that vision is what makes Sarah be special and the likes of others, whether it's Steve jobs or a Disney that's.

1 (34m 34s):
I think Steve, your credit of helping bring this vision to life is really exciting. In fact, I had a quick conversation with a real estate developer Monday night from Noonan who said, well, we came over here about 15 years ago. We thought he was crazy. And so that he was, he doesn't think you're crazy now. So it's a real Testament to what you've accomplished or these

2 (35m 1s):
John think that's a real compliment coming from you. And I appreciate that. I, I think one of my skills as a hospitality based person is I simply know how to invite the creatives around the table. And once you start more creatives to kind of show up, there's sort of an energy that draws, which is a case in point as to why you have found your way back to Sarah. That's fun. You know, I often, you know, when I hear the name Wolfgang puck, I think in the, in the middle seventies, the national restaurant association did a panel of emerging food trends.

2 (35m 42s):
And there were four of us and we'll gain puck was one of the people along with me and Richard, Melvin out of Chicago and someone else out of new England. So it's fun to see some of the creative people in the various areas we're still hanging out.

1 (36m 2s):
Yeah, well, you're, you're, that was a unique group. And I did, I have another Richard Melman story that we can save for another time, but you're exactly right. And that background of hospitality and I had short stints in hospitality that also inform our work and brand culture. And we think about helping create not only a great customer experience, we think about trying to help our clients create a great hospitality experience. And that's exactly frankly, what we're doing with the private bank that I mentioned earlier, and that borrows on some of Danny Meyer's thinking in a book that he wrote called setting the table a few years ago. And of course, Danny Myers is a very successful restaurant tour in New York. And, and that idea of creating a hospitality experience, I think is part of, you know, obviously it's part of your success and that's what built your success early years, which I was able to observe from a little bit of far, but close by in Atlanta, going back to the eighties,

2 (37m 1s):
Thank you. Well, you know, hospitality, you, you look at apple and the genius bar that's pure hospitality experience that they brought into the technical computer world, a huge success for apple.

1 (37m 14s):
That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

2 (37m 19s):
Everyone should work in a restaurant at some point during their, their career, especially, you know, it's perfect for the college age because you, you learn different skills in dealing with people when you're in the hospitality.

1 (37m 36s):
That's absolutely right. And at Wolfgang's organization and within, I helped grow the catering and event company and the idea there was whatever the customer wants and they live by that and both from the service experience, but also the presentation of the food and that entire entire experience. And that I think you can learn from those I've learned from those lessons. And I tried to bring those in our corporate world clients, whether they're a technology innovation or professional service firm, or we've done work with princess cruises and Hilton and other more traditional hospitality organizations.

1 (38m 16s):
But we think those principles apply no matter what business you're in.

2 (38m 20s):
And remind me, how did you come to know with game?

1 (38m 25s):
Well, we had, back in my days at Atlanta, there was a colleague that was involved. The concept that we were brought to Atlanta had been originally created by rich Melman and the web restaurant group David and Rick Webb from Minneapolis had brought the live venue concept into Atlanta and a guy by the name of Carl Schuster was on the operating side. And when I moved to California, Carl and I reconnected and he said, I just teamed up with Wolfgang and we're going to build a catering company. Can you help me? And I said, well, I'm sort of focused my career at the moment in brand consulting.

1 (39m 7s):
I just joined Siegel Gale, which is one of the top brand consulting firms in our profession. And I said, but yeah, I'll help. And so I really started doing some work on the side with Wolfgang and Carl, and then about five years into it, the catering business had grown to a fairly decent size. It was about 25 million in revenue at the time. And they asked me to come on to help lead and drive the growth and the overall sales and marketing organization. So I joined, it was about 25 million. And my left three years later, we had grown it to 125 million in revenue and had the benefit of partnering with a compass group, which is the world's largest food service organization to help us grow that business.

1 (39m 55s):
And one of our largest contracts to connect back to Atlanta was a Georgia aquarium that we secured, I suppose now about 16 years ago, when the Georgia aquarium first launched and we provided the food service at the Georgia aquarium and we expanded across the country and other visitor destinations and cultural institutions around the U S when I laugh, we were in 33 different museums and visitor destinations much like the Georgia aquarium or other institutions like the Chicago contemporary art museum, the Boston museum of science and the international contemporary art museum, et cetera.

1 (40m 36s):
So that that's really a summation of my stint with Wolfgang.

2 (40m 41s):
Have you ever talked with Darren? Joffey our first farmer who's back now, living here about your time with Benza.

1 (40m 48s):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Darren and I were trying to spend more time together and you've invited us into this group that you're organizing the farm to farmers program, which we're really excited about. And Darren and I are trying to find ways to collaborate. And one of the ideas that Darren and we've been talking about going back to the corporate conversation and this idea of bringing wellness, biophilic principles into the corporate conversation, we think there's an opportunity to create programs, to engage corporate clients in, in farming and Agra, regenerative, agricultural thinking, and the principles of biophilia. And we're looking to find opportunities where we might develop some clinics or programs for our, and really to get them out of the corporate office and get them out of the corporate meeting room and get them out of a hotel and get them out to nature.

1 (41m 42s):
Because we think if we can immersed our clients in an experience like we have at ceremony, bigger ideas will come out of it. Right.

2 (41m 51s):
But did you know that it's because of Wolfgang pot that Darren accepted the job as our first farmer?

1 (42m 0s):
No.

2 (42m 3s):
His uncle worked for Wolfgang puck

1 (42m 7s):
And he

2 (42m 8s):
Told me the story on the podcast, his podcast, that I hadn't heard before that his father was very upset about him leaving college to start his farming and when his father, so there's uncle that this is what he was thinking about doing. And his uncle knew about me of course, through the restaurant that said, oh, take that opportunity. And so he's with his uncles, a blessing, his dad, his dad said it was okay. So yeah, you should talk to him about his uncle who you probably know all the years of working.

1 (42m 49s):
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because you know, the food industry and the restaurant business, because I was always on the marketing side of the business, and yet I enjoyed the opportunity to be, you know, work with different restaurant tours and different brands and the restaurant business. And so our most significant work in the last few years, it was with princess cruises has really helped them redefine their brand and help them reshape the entirety of the guest experience and their employee experience with the organization.

0 (43m 20s):
Well, I love hearing all these stories and John, we really appreciate all your time. This was so fun to like learn a little bit more and get more of your background. And now I'm looking forward to the 2022 design competition.

2 (43m 35s):
John we're so pleased that you've chosen to be at Sarah and being it's such fun to see you out on the trails it's called.

1 (43m 42s):
Well, I hope I can keep running a long time.

2 (43m 47s):
Thanks

1 (43m 48s):
Very much for having me.

0 (43m 49s):
Ah, thank you so much. Thank you for listening to ceremony stories. New episodes are available on Mondays. Please follow us and leave us a five star review and visit our website to learn more about guests episodes and everything. Seren b@serenbstories.com. This episode is supported by the, in it be nestled in the rolling countryside of the bucolic community of ceremony, where guests can walk on the 15 miles of private trails through preserved forest land, the wildflower meadow, and the animal village, relax at the pool hot tub or in rocking chairs on wraparound porch, lay on the croquet lawn, grab a canoe and jump on the in-ground trampoline connects with nature and each other all while staying in a luxurious space at the end at Seren.

0 (44m 37s):
Be book your stay today at <inaudible> dot com, S E R E N B E I N n.com.